who the hell cares? if I want graphics I'll watch a movie. these are video games. you play them. I'll take a good playing game over a good looking game any day of the week. not saying that zelda's better or worse playing/looking then okami, just saying in general designers need to get a damn clue. games like grand theft auto or pokemon or the sims or tetris look like crap but people buy them anyway because people find them fun to actually play.

I do kinda agree with one thing. Cel shading rules! I want to see the Wii doing that(I loooooooove the look of that anime footbal game), cause I hate realistic looking 3d characters, especially if they purposely anatomically correct humans. Even with the PS3 and the 360, I'm not so hot about. They are bordering on creepy and awkward, especially now that they are more "realistic". Uncanny Valley ftl!

I agree about disliking intentionally photo-realistic graphics: always looks bad (the technology just isn't there yet). But this doesn't mean every game has to look like a cartoon: even something like Gears of War is stylized enough that it isn't bothersome (compared to something like Oblivion that's hard to look at because of the uncanny valley). RE4 also had enough intentional stylization to look really nice, Twilight Princess has even more.

I was disappointed with the visuals in TP - but that was at the start of the game. I feel they have significantly picked up since (I am now in a snowy area...), and seem to be getting better with each new level of the game. That said - they definitely feel "GC-ish" to me. Been playing a lot of Excitetruck, and I think the gfx are fantastic (huge step above TP). The lure fishing area is really beautiful though - I wish the game would have started there :)

I love the graphics in Loz: Wind Waker (I am playing through it now for the first time). I like them a lot more then the graphics in Twilight Princess.

As for cell shadeing, the PS2 sucks at it. That is why games like 'Tales of Symphonia' look so much better on the GC than they do on the PS2. To get proper cell shadeing on the PS2, it takes just as much power, if not more. It has to make like 3 or 4 passes. While the gamecube has a specific chip for cell shading. I think the gamecube/Wii have a MAJOR advantage over the PS2/360 when it comes to cell shading. However from what I have seen from the PS3, I am eagerly awaiting some of the 'next' gen cell shaded games. I cant rember what it was, but I was hard pressed telling the diffrence from it, and modern anime. I dont even rember if it was a full game. I have never been a fan on cell shading tho. I think WindWalker was beautiful. And I think TP was very sub-par graphically, compared to what it could/should have been. But that is just showing how small nintendo gives their AAA games of a budget. Kinda why I'm not expecting alot this year from nintendo. Why do I say that? Let me give an example of how a game is built, and why a game can look beautiful and be a great game, or look horrible, and be a great game, or even look great, and play like crap. It's called the dev process. Main Programmer team - Usually about 4-8 people who program the graphics engine, and make sure it uses as much power as it can possibly use. If it is a port, or useing a old engine. There would only be 1 or 2 programmers. Art Team - Depending on how much art content is already needed. They need anywhere from 5 to 100 artists. The art team builds the models, the worlds, the levels. They make the game beautiful. Voice Team - Usually these people are from other parts of the game, and just do horrible voice overs. Story/gameplay team - Usually 2 to 8 people who work together to make sure the story fits together right, makes sense, and is generally enjoyable. That is for a last gen game. If the Art team sucks, and cant do a good job, the game's graphics will suck. Even if the programmers created the best engine of all time. If the art team is the best in the world, and the programming team gives them crap to work with... It will still look like crap. The gameplay/story team works very close with both art and programming teams. As the game starts to peice together, they are the ones who make sure everything is working like it should. If they are too stressed and on a time schedule they will drop certin things. Depending on who they are. Alot of the time, they cheap on gameplay, becuase it is the easiest to hide.

I would agree with that. I think the gfx in Wind Waker were fantastic - really lovely. TP seems much more... bland? in comparison. As much as people would believe TP to have been Nintendo's focus - I don't believe it was in terms of development. I think it got "handed off" to a secondary team, with the really awesome developers working on Wii titles (Wii sports and more). Gfx are only going to get better as well - really looking forward to the next 12+ months :)

One more comment... I'd love to see Nintendo release a "TP - remixed" in a years time (or so). All the textures/graphics to be upped to Wii standards, maybe voice added, controls tweaked, gameplay issues fixed (not that I can count many). But most importantly - the game MUST be made HARDER. 2-3 times as hard. I really, REALLY want a "hardcore" version of TP - as the game is WAY too easy at the moment (its even easier than Wind Waker). Nintendo always promised the game would be harder, with more complex combat / enemies - and I feel that they have reneged on this :P (my 2c gripe... TP is still a 9.5/10 in my books, its that extra 0.5 I want :>)

Funny that in a discussion about GC graphics you said RE4 was ok looking but nowhere near the level of FF10, 12 or God of War.

Thanks for pointing that out. I think all those look better than RE4. which puts TP that far down on the list... ouch. Basically what I was saying. Nice for you to read through the lines and understand what I was saying!