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Forums - Gaming - Are RPGs becoming niche on consoles?

Impulsivity on 18 February 2009
Riachu said:
Impulsivity said:

I think the general level of suck RPGs, in particular JRPGs, have demonstrated is solely responsible for that. I mean if they're going to churn out crap like Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssey (which wouldn't even make the top 25 best PS2 RPGs in a million years) then yes, sales will be bad.

The only bright spot is PC flavored WRPGs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. With more like Dragon Age and the Witcher making it to multiple consoles there is certainly hope for RPGs, probably just not JRPGs which are looking more and more dated whenever I try playing them lately. I mean it was great in 1987 when Dragon Warrior was new, but games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, the Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic and the rest of the WRPG crowd have raised the bar so much higher the last few years that JRPGs just look....passe.

   I mean the least they could do is add moral choice, branching dialogue and the ability to make characters that don't look like hermaphadites (like ALL JRPG protagonists seem to be).  Adding some combat that isn't as stale as 3 year old bread wouldn't hurt either.

   Valkaria Chronicles was a big step in the right direction, and the white knight chronicles might be too if they would fin release the damn thing over here.

   Also I bet you anything the boatload of MMOs eats into that non MMO RPG market a fair bit.  I buy less games when I'm playing MMOs actively pretty decidedly.

Stop trying to turn JRPGs into WRPGs.  The least they can do is try to not rehash the same plotlines and character types over and over again.  Besides, I'm sure quality will improve once FFXIII comes out and raises the bar like the series always does.

 

 

 

   I'm sorry but as a vet of at least 300 RPGs over the last 20 years I can say pretty definitively that WRPGs aren't just different, they're better (and the marketplace agrees).  They have better voice acting, more interesting characters, better immersion, better graphics and enviornment, more original game play ect.  There is not a single thing in any JRPG released in the last 10 years that hasn't been done before (and usually better) in the past, but there are new and interesting ideas in WRPGs every year without fail.

 

  JRPGs are a niche genre mainly because they have been suplanted by superior WRPGs in Europe and America pretty definitively.  The days of multiple million selling JRPGs seems to be over and then some in the west.




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Rei on 18 February 2009

In short: yes. And do wRPGs healthy sales performance outweigh the lack of Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/KH titles? I guess they do. But wRPG and jRPG are so different they are almost considered 2 different genres.

wRPGs are better than ever this gen (sales-wise), quality-wise they are in a constant decline though. jRPGs sell the same they always did, but there are not nearly as many of them on current-gen consoles as there were on PS2. This+lack of FF/DQ/KH titles+the fact that console jRPGs this gen are split between the 3 consoles (while last gen almost all of them were on PS2) makes it seem like the genre is dying.

I think jRPG genre needs a blockbuster title to gather some interest of masses. Once it happens things will start getting better. However, it is already clear that the home for the genre this gen is DS and not the consoles. I dont think this will change.



tehsage on 18 February 2009
Impulsivity said:
Riachu said:
Impulsivity said:

I think the general level of suck RPGs, in particular JRPGs, have demonstrated is solely responsible for that. I mean if they're going to churn out crap like Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssey (which wouldn't even make the top 25 best PS2 RPGs in a million years) then yes, sales will be bad.

The only bright spot is PC flavored WRPGs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. With more like Dragon Age and the Witcher making it to multiple consoles there is certainly hope for RPGs, probably just not JRPGs which are looking more and more dated whenever I try playing them lately. I mean it was great in 1987 when Dragon Warrior was new, but games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, the Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic and the rest of the WRPG crowd have raised the bar so much higher the last few years that JRPGs just look....passe.

   I mean the least they could do is add moral choice, branching dialogue and the ability to make characters that don't look like hermaphadites (like ALL JRPG protagonists seem to be).  Adding some combat that isn't as stale as 3 year old bread wouldn't hurt either.

   Valkaria Chronicles was a big step in the right direction, and the white knight chronicles might be too if they would fin release the damn thing over here.

   Also I bet you anything the boatload of MMOs eats into that non MMO RPG market a fair bit.  I buy less games when I'm playing MMOs actively pretty decidedly.

Stop trying to turn JRPGs into WRPGs.  The least they can do is try to not rehash the same plotlines and character types over and over again.  Besides, I'm sure quality will improve once FFXIII comes out and raises the bar like the series always does.

 

 

 

   I'm sorry but as a vet of at least 300 RPGs over the last 20 years I can say pretty definitively that WRPGs aren't just different, they're better (and the marketplace agrees).  They have better voice acting, more interesting characters, better immersion, better graphics and enviornment, more original game play ect.  There is not a single thing in any JRPG released in the last 10 years that hasn't been done before (and usually better) in the past, but there are new and interesting ideas in WRPGs every year without fail.

 

  JRPGs are a niche genre mainly because they have been suplanted by superior WRPGs in Europe and America pretty definitively.  The days of multiple million selling JRPGs seems to be over and then some in the west.

 

You're right! Because Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and Fable are all different and unique.

 

I mean, it's not like Chrono Trigger or Breath of Fire were different. And it's not like The World Ends With You tried anything new. And like every JRPG, all the combat is turn based...right?...RIGHT? (TWEWY, ToS, etc)

 

Remember guys? JRPGs are all the same... 8D

OH wait..



Johann on 18 February 2009

@impulsivity:

Do you really believe that quality has something to do with sales in this gaming world we live in?

Do you actually belive that WRPGs are selling more than JRPGs on consoles right now because "americans and europeans see that it is superior"? Or "because JRPGs can't capture the imagination of these gamers aymore"?

It's the same with people that belive that Ps2 sold more than 140 mllion units because it had a great library of games. People could give 2 shits about the games quality. The consoles that sells most does it so simply because it's the "it" thing to have, as do games. Hype and advertise something enough, it'll sell like crazy. Want an example? Nintendo could stop anouncing games for the rest of this generation, and the Wii would still be topping the charts of both Hardware and Software for the rest of its life.

Why can't Okami sell well, if quality is all that it takes?



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Qual é, Dadinho...?

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Impulsivity on 18 February 2009
Rei said:
In short: yes. And do wRPGs healthy sales performance outweigh the lack of Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/KH titles? I guess they do. But wRPG and jRPG are so different they are almost considered 2 different genres.

wRPGs are better than ever this gen (sales-wise), quality-wise they are in a constant decline though. jRPGs sell the same they always did, but there are not nearly as many of them on current-gen consoles as there were on PS2. This+lack of FF/DQ/KH titles+the fact that console jRPGs this gen are split between the 3 consoles (while last gen almost all of them were on PS2) makes it seem like the genre is dying.

I think jRPG genre needs a blockbuster title to gather some interest of masses. Once it happens things will start getting better. However, it is already clear that the home for the genre this gen is DS and not the consoles. I dont think this will change.

 

  Where's this quality decline?  Fallout 3 was one of the best games I've played and Dragon Age looks like its going to be awesome.  If anything the quality has improved over the last 5 years since KOTOR started the WRPG resurgance




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disolitude on 18 February 2009
Impulsivity said:

I think the general level of suck RPGs, in particular JRPGs, have demonstrated is solely responsible for that. I mean if they're going to churn out crap like Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssey (which wouldn't even make the top 25 best PS2 RPGs in a million years) then yes, sales will be bad.

The only bright spot is PC flavored WRPGs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. With more like Dragon Age and the Witcher making it to multiple consoles there is certainly hope for RPGs, probably just not JRPGs which are looking more and more dated whenever I try playing them lately. I mean it was great in 1987 when Dragon Warrior was new, but games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, the Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic and the rest of the WRPG crowd have raised the bar so much higher the last few years that JRPGs just look....passe.

   I mean the least they could do is add moral choice, branching dialogue and the ability to make characters that don't look like hermaphadites (like ALL JRPG protagonists seem to be).  Adding some combat that isn't as stale as 3 year old bread wouldn't hurt either.

   Valkaria Chronicles was a big step in the right direction, and the white knight chronicles might be too if they would fin release the damn thing over here.

   Also I bet you anything the boatload of MMOs eats into that non MMO RPG market a fair bit.  I buy less games when I'm playing MMOs actively pretty decidedly.

 

 Standard Impulsivity post.

Parise PS3/PS2 games - Check

Dis 360 games - Check

Mostly opinion - Check



Impulsivity on 18 February 2009
tehsage said:
Impulsivity said:
Riachu said:
Impulsivity said:

I think the general level of suck RPGs, in particular JRPGs, have demonstrated is solely responsible for that. I mean if they're going to churn out crap like Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssey (which wouldn't even make the top 25 best PS2 RPGs in a million years) then yes, sales will be bad.

The only bright spot is PC flavored WRPGs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. With more like Dragon Age and the Witcher making it to multiple consoles there is certainly hope for RPGs, probably just not JRPGs which are looking more and more dated whenever I try playing them lately. I mean it was great in 1987 when Dragon Warrior was new, but games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, the Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic and the rest of the WRPG crowd have raised the bar so much higher the last few years that JRPGs just look....passe.

   I mean the least they could do is add moral choice, branching dialogue and the ability to make characters that don't look like hermaphadites (like ALL JRPG protagonists seem to be).  Adding some combat that isn't as stale as 3 year old bread wouldn't hurt either.

   Valkaria Chronicles was a big step in the right direction, and the white knight chronicles might be too if they would fin release the damn thing over here.

   Also I bet you anything the boatload of MMOs eats into that non MMO RPG market a fair bit.  I buy less games when I'm playing MMOs actively pretty decidedly.

Stop trying to turn JRPGs into WRPGs.  The least they can do is try to not rehash the same plotlines and character types over and over again.  Besides, I'm sure quality will improve once FFXIII comes out and raises the bar like the series always does.

 

 

 

   I'm sorry but as a vet of at least 300 RPGs over the last 20 years I can say pretty definitively that WRPGs aren't just different, they're better (and the marketplace agrees).  They have better voice acting, more interesting characters, better immersion, better graphics and enviornment, more original game play ect.  There is not a single thing in any JRPG released in the last 10 years that hasn't been done before (and usually better) in the past, but there are new and interesting ideas in WRPGs every year without fail.

 

  JRPGs are a niche genre mainly because they have been suplanted by superior WRPGs in Europe and America pretty definitively.  The days of multiple million selling JRPGs seems to be over and then some in the west.

 

You're right! Because Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and Fable are all different and unique.

 

I mean, it's not like Chrono Trigger or Breath of Fire were different. And it's not like The World Ends With You tried anything new. And like every JRPG, all the combat is turn based...right?...RIGHT? (TWEWY, ToS, etc)

 

Remember guys? JRPGs are all the same... 8D

OH wait..

 

  I played a large number of games on the PS1 that played JUST like tales of Destiny and others.   Though the stories in Breath of Fire and Chrono Trigger and FF were different, the gameplay was very very similar with only minor wrinkles like fusing Bo with other characters or using sword arts thrown in.  The only really unique SNES JRPG was Secret of Mana which they never even released the sequel to stateside.  There has been no significant new idea in JRPGs in at least 10 years as I said before.




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Rei on 18 February 2009
Impulsivity said:
Rei said:
In short: yes. And do wRPGs healthy sales performance outweigh the lack of Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/KH titles? I guess they do. But wRPG and jRPG are so different they are almost considered 2 different genres.

wRPGs are better than ever this gen (sales-wise), quality-wise they are in a constant decline though. jRPGs sell the same they always did, but there are not nearly as many of them on current-gen consoles as there were on PS2. This+lack of FF/DQ/KH titles+the fact that console jRPGs this gen are split between the 3 consoles (while last gen almost all of them were on PS2) makes it seem like the genre is dying.

I think jRPG genre needs a blockbuster title to gather some interest of masses. Once it happens things will start getting better. However, it is already clear that the home for the genre this gen is DS and not the consoles. I dont think this will change.

 

  Where's this quality decline?  Fallout 3 was one of the best games I've played and Dragon Age looks like its going to be awesome.  If anything the quality has improved over the last 5 years since KOTOR started the WRPG resurgance

Fallout 3 really is great. But Oblivion was worse than Morrowind. Mass Effect was a dissapointment. Neverwinter Nights 2 was a dissapointment (although it isnt on consoles). Fable 2 I havent played, because I absolutely didnt like Fable 1.

   The genre used to be better. Now wRPG devs try to take a different approach and sometimes they succeed and make something awesome and interesting - Fallout 3, but sometimes they fail and make something that is boring and doesnt even feel like an RPG - Mass Effect.

   overall wRPGs nowadays are okay, but they are worse than they used to be, thats why I am saying they are in decline.

 



Riachu on 18 February 2009
Impulsivity said:
tehsage said:
Impulsivity said:
Riachu said:
Impulsivity said:

I think the general level of suck RPGs, in particular JRPGs, have demonstrated is solely responsible for that. I mean if they're going to churn out crap like Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssey (which wouldn't even make the top 25 best PS2 RPGs in a million years) then yes, sales will be bad.

The only bright spot is PC flavored WRPGs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. With more like Dragon Age and the Witcher making it to multiple consoles there is certainly hope for RPGs, probably just not JRPGs which are looking more and more dated whenever I try playing them lately. I mean it was great in 1987 when Dragon Warrior was new, but games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, the Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic and the rest of the WRPG crowd have raised the bar so much higher the last few years that JRPGs just look....passe.

   I mean the least they could do is add moral choice, branching dialogue and the ability to make characters that don't look like hermaphadites (like ALL JRPG protagonists seem to be).  Adding some combat that isn't as stale as 3 year old bread wouldn't hurt either.

   Valkaria Chronicles was a big step in the right direction, and the white knight chronicles might be too if they would fin release the damn thing over here.

   Also I bet you anything the boatload of MMOs eats into that non MMO RPG market a fair bit.  I buy less games when I'm playing MMOs actively pretty decidedly.

Stop trying to turn JRPGs into WRPGs.  The least they can do is try to not rehash the same plotlines and character types over and over again.  Besides, I'm sure quality will improve once FFXIII comes out and raises the bar like the series always does.

 

 

 

   I'm sorry but as a vet of at least 300 RPGs over the last 20 years I can say pretty definitively that WRPGs aren't just different, they're better (and the marketplace agrees).  They have better voice acting, more interesting characters, better immersion, better graphics and enviornment, more original game play ect.  There is not a single thing in any JRPG released in the last 10 years that hasn't been done before (and usually better) in the past, but there are new and interesting ideas in WRPGs every year without fail.

 

  JRPGs are a niche genre mainly because they have been suplanted by superior WRPGs in Europe and America pretty definitively.  The days of multiple million selling JRPGs seems to be over and then some in the west.

 

You're right! Because Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and Fable are all different and unique.

 

I mean, it's not like Chrono Trigger or Breath of Fire were different. And it's not like The World Ends With You tried anything new. And like every JRPG, all the combat is turn based...right?...RIGHT? (TWEWY, ToS, etc)

 

Remember guys? JRPGs are all the same... 8D

OH wait..

 

  I played a large number of games on the PS1 that played JUST like tales of Destiny and others.   Though the stories in Breath of Fire and Chrono Trigger and FF were different, the gameplay was very very similar with only minor wrinkles like fusing Bo with other characters or using sword arts thrown in.  The only really unique SNES JRPG was Secret of Mana which they never even released the sequel to stateside.  There has been no significant new idea in JRPGs in at least 10 years as I said before.

You mean The World Ends With You didn't have significant new ideas?  That's news to me.  Also, I think Japanese consumers are to blame for this suppose lack of significant new ideas in JRPGs as they are traditionalists and JRPGs are mainly aimed at them.  I think that the fact that developers want to aim new JRPGs at a Western audience is a step in the right direction.

 



 

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antfromtashkent on 18 February 2009

i think that RPGs are becoming bigger... but JRPGs... i dont have the figgures but i don think they are doing as well.