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Forums - General - Do you think Darwin is right

JaggedSac said:

There are many possible whos.  Creatures that came before us, not originating from this planer, being the main one.  Could you provide some concrete details on the things you say Expelled did?  Stein was not really for or against either side, so why would they provide a biased view?  He was just saying that people who have valid scientific ideals about ID should not be shunned, mocked, and reprimanded by the scientific community.  Until the day that someone comes out with a valid and provable scientific explanation on how life originated on our planet, ID should be given due process.  I am in no way a believer in god, but that in no way means I do not have ideas on how Intelligent Design can be valid.

And yes, even if there were aliens that created us, they would have to have started somewhere.  But, if you concede that point, it makes the research of Intelligent Design valid.  Because knowing that information would be jsut as big, if not bigger than the idea that WE started from nothing.

 

An example of Expelled's problems is the Charles Darwin quotation. Stein was showing that Darwin believed in Eugenics by giving this quote;

"With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed."

The real untrimmed quote is;

"With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil."

Its entirely ridiculous how Stein spinned it.



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But, but... the aliens! The aliens, man! We were all brought here by aliens, it's true! Don't y'all know?? C'mon, even John Travolta knows! Scientology man, Darwin knew nothing about that.



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largedarryl said:
emilie autumn said:
Bursche said:
emilie autumn said:
evolution through adaptation is the only logical solution to life existance as we know it, unless you believe theres a God

 

 You can't have both? What if God placed the ability to adapt in us, knowing how the patterns of our environments would always change? Why can't there be a middle ground instead of the extreme left or right and no middle?

 

yes, god may have placed such an ability in us, but the thing is not only humans are the ones that adapt and evolve through time. we started as an unicelular organisms and through time and changes in the enviroment we evolved, still there exists in this world unicelular organisms that haven't evolved since their existance, that brings up more questions as if they don't evolve ¿are they perfect? ¿were they moleculy different but adapted perfectly to every enviroment? i believe in god and the scientific explanation involves such random sequences of events, but maybe god planed everything to be like these.

What proof do you have that present day micro-organisms have not evolved ever?

 

microorganisms have indeed evolve thats why we are here, altough not all of them have or haven't done it since before other life forms existed. a good example of an ancestral multicellular organism that hasn't evolved through ages is the crocodile, they have remainded the same since hundred thounsands of years, does that mean that they have reached the pinnacle of their existance and have become perfect in their own function?



 

Cheebee said:
But, but... the aliens! The aliens, man! We were all brought here by aliens, it's true! Don't y'all know?? C'mon, even John Travolta knows! Scientology man, Darwin knew nothing about that.

 

Unless scientology believes in time-travel psi-borgs, they are wrong. But hey, they might



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

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Rath, are you saying Darwinism did not influence Eugenics? That is a bold claim.



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emilie autumn said:
largedarryl said:
emilie autumn said:
Bursche said:
emilie autumn said:
evolution through adaptation is the only logical solution to life existance as we know it, unless you believe theres a God

 

 You can't have both? What if God placed the ability to adapt in us, knowing how the patterns of our environments would always change? Why can't there be a middle ground instead of the extreme left or right and no middle?

 

yes, god may have placed such an ability in us, but the thing is not only humans are the ones that adapt and evolve through time. we started as an unicelular organisms and through time and changes in the enviroment we evolved, still there exists in this world unicelular organisms that haven't evolved since their existance, that brings up more questions as if they don't evolve ¿are they perfect? ¿were they moleculy different but adapted perfectly to every enviroment? i believe in god and the scientific explanation involves such random sequences of events, but maybe god planed everything to be like these.

What proof do you have that present day micro-organisms have not evolved ever?

 

microorganisms have indeed evolve thats why we are here, altough not all of them have or haven't done it since before other life forms existed. a good example of an ancestral multicellular organism that hasn't evolved through ages is the crocodile, they have remainded the same since hundred thounsands of years, does that mean that they have reached the pinnacle of their existance and have become perfect in their own function?

Yes indeed, it is perfect or very close to perfect for survival in its ecological niche. Hence why it has survived through those hundreds of thousands of years without becoming extinct.

 



Darwin is dead.



I agree with Darwin. Maybe he's not right on every aspect, but his larger point is absolutely correct.




JaggedSac said:
Rath, are you saying Darwinism did not influence Eugenics? That is a bold claim.

 

No I was providing evidence of how badly Stein misrepresented Darwins position on Eugenics. I made no comment at all on my personal position on the subject.



Strategyking92 said:
Cheebee said:
But, but... the aliens! The aliens, man! We were all brought here by aliens, it's true! Don't y'all know?? C'mon, even John Travolta knows! Scientology man, Darwin knew nothing about that.

 

Unless scientology believes in time-travel psi-borgs, they are wrong. But hey, they might

     = 10,000 years old "cave" drawings.