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Forums - Gaming - Oh Lord Capcom accused of Racism for RE5

foont said:
Ok. Let's put it this way:

Would it be appropriate to have a game set in a fictional American city (similar to New York, but NOT New York) in which one of your missions in the game is to knock down two tall, identical buildings (or towers, if you will) with a couple of airplanes? Oh, and you play as characters from the middle east. But it's TOTALLY just a coincidence that it looks like 9/11 because the enemies in the buildings are aliens or locusts or goombas or something...

Or would some people be understandably offended by that? I think a lot of people would be, and I think they would be justified in feeling that way.

 

I had already addressed this though.  I've already explicitly said it's one thing to be offended by it but its another to call it racist.  I'll repost it:

Sqrl said:

 

I don't think people shouldn't get offended (zomg double negative), I think when they see something that offends them they should examine the issue.  If they honestly believe the motivations behind the acts are race and/or sex then they should absolutely be offended (and if they're right it is racism). But if they find that the motivations seem to be something different they should introspect on their own baises in their initial reaction.  It's self-correction...it's ok to form an early opinion and then refine the opinion with new information as it comes.  It's not ok to form an early opinion and refuse to examine new information and stick to your first impression.  Maybe you find that the motivations were innocent but you're still offended....that's legitimate too, but you don't call them racist or sexist and you should recognize that your position is highly subjective.

Italic stuff added.

The point is that there is a difference between labeling something or someone racist, sexist, or any other *ist and being offended by it.  I can give you examples both ways:

  • I would say RE5 is an example of something that could be offensive to some but is not racist because it does not promote the superiority of one race over any other race. 
  • I personally think guys should make it a point to hold the door for their date, this is technically sexist, but I don't know any rational people who are offended by it. Chivalry in general is sexist
  • Comedians often make racist jokes, and people have to decide if it is offensive or just in humor.
  • If you flip someone the bird they are offended by it in most cases...if that person happens to be a minority is it automatically racist?  What if you're both members of the same minority?
  • etc...

If someone finds RE5 offensive that's their right, but an offensive issue with multiple races involved is not automatically racist.

I think it is potentially dangerous for someone to label someone or something racist based on what they infer about a situation.  To infer that this "outsider" is promoting the superiority of his race by helping is hardly enough to label it with such a damaging word. 

The insidiousness of racism is its vagueness, but you have to be responsible despite that.  If you think something is racist the first reaction should be to confront it not label it.  If it is legitimately racism then it will reveal itself, otherwise you may do more harm than good by crying wolf one too many times or by simply branding an innocent person. 

Ok, that's enough for now from me.  I think I've said about as much as I can without repeating myself (even more), so I'll leave it here.

 

 

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
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windbane said:
foont said:
Ok. Let's put it this way:

Would it be appropriate to have a game set in a fictional American city (similar to New York, but NOT New York) in which one of your missions in the game is to knock down two tall, identical buildings (or towers, if you will) with a couple of airplanes? Oh, and you play as characters from the middle east. But it's TOTALLY just a coincidence that it looks like 9/11 because the enemies in the buildings are aliens or locusts or goombas or something...

Or would some people be understandably offended by that? I think a lot of people would be, and I think they would be justified in feeling that way.


It's easy to say, "It's fictional. You're just reading too much into it", but that's an answer that too quickly brushes aside much more complex problems and questions.

Shouldn't creators be responsible for the choices they make in their work? Shouldn't audiences be responsible to criticize and discuss?

For me this isn't even an argument about video games, racism, equality or social ills. It's simply a question as to whether or not the imagery in RE5 is potentially offensive.


I don't know if I can make it much clearer than that without launching into a pretentious lecture on semiotics and symbolism, and sounding like a total douchebag instead of just a partial douchebag.



To make that analogy work: the building would have to be infested with ZOMBIES. Furthermore, you'll have to point to a specific event that RE5 mimics. Is it Hotel Rwanda? Is it Blood Diamond (which btw had a good guy with a gun that happened to be white and some bad guys that were black...and the white guy ended up with a black side-kick!)? Were those offensive?

You can't just say "what if a video game depicted this very specific incident?" RE5 is no more offensive than RE4 or RE3 or RE2 or RE1 or RE0 or Code Veronica or Academy Award nominated Blood Diamond. The setting is somewhere in Africa. Some people are black. One of the main characters happens to be a white male.

When is the last time a white male went to Africa and shot a bunch of people, much less zombies? Can you tell me that? I'm not up to date on African wars so there might very well be a specific incident. Perhaps fighting against South African apartide? I'm sure there was at least 1 white guy shooting some black guys. You tell me.

Everything in the world is offensive to someone, we can't help that, but please show me all the black people that are offended that a game in Africa features black people.

 

 

 Good point with Blood Diamond.  I liked your post.

On that note, my wife and her family are from Sierra Leone.  They were not offended by Blood Diamond.  They don't like to watch certain parts of it because they lived through that, but they don't consider it racism to portray it.

Also, My wife and nephew saw RE5 demo and all this bullcrap that (I'm presumming white people) are saying would never even have crossed their mind.  They saw it, didn't think anything of it.  The truth is. ITS NOT OFFENSIVE. It isn't racist, it doesent psychologically ding bada doom bam ba, blah blah yakkety smakety.

All these other arguments about racial tone, too close to home.  It's all bullshit.  Africans don't give a fuck.  I have Africans in my family, theyre only reaction to this would be, don't associate me with those complainers!  It boggles my mind how people can sit around and come up with this shit.



"Let justice be done though the heavens fall." - Jim Garrison

"Ask not your horse, if ye should ride into battle" - myself

I agree with Sqrl.



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Slimebeast said:

 

Capcom's "the origin of humanity" argument is bullshit - it's just something they're saying to please the politically correct mafia.

 

I'm pretty sure they set up that in the story awhile ago.  I've only played RE1 and RE4, though, so someone feel free to correct me.  I don't think it's relevant because I happen to like the change of settings in the last few games.  Even RE1 to RE2 was a complete change of setting.



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Commando said:
windbane said:
foont said:
Ok. Let's put it this way:

Would it be appropriate to have a game set in a fictional American city (similar to New York, but NOT New York) in which one of your missions in the game is to knock down two tall, identical buildings (or towers, if you will) with a couple of airplanes? Oh, and you play as characters from the middle east. But it's TOTALLY just a coincidence that it looks like 9/11 because the enemies in the buildings are aliens or locusts or goombas or something...

Or would some people be understandably offended by that? I think a lot of people would be, and I think they would be justified in feeling that way.


It's easy to say, "It's fictional. You're just reading too much into it", but that's an answer that too quickly brushes aside much more complex problems and questions.

Shouldn't creators be responsible for the choices they make in their work? Shouldn't audiences be responsible to criticize and discuss?

For me this isn't even an argument about video games, racism, equality or social ills. It's simply a question as to whether or not the imagery in RE5 is potentially offensive.


I don't know if I can make it much clearer than that without launching into a pretentious lecture on semiotics and symbolism, and sounding like a total douchebag instead of just a partial douchebag.



To make that analogy work: the building would have to be infested with ZOMBIES. Furthermore, you'll have to point to a specific event that RE5 mimics. Is it Hotel Rwanda? Is it Blood Diamond (which btw had a good guy with a gun that happened to be white and some bad guys that were black...and the white guy ended up with a black side-kick!)? Were those offensive?

You can't just say "what if a video game depicted this very specific incident?" RE5 is no more offensive than RE4 or RE3 or RE2 or RE1 or RE0 or Code Veronica or Academy Award nominated Blood Diamond. The setting is somewhere in Africa. Some people are black. One of the main characters happens to be a white male.

When is the last time a white male went to Africa and shot a bunch of people, much less zombies? Can you tell me that? I'm not up to date on African wars so there might very well be a specific incident. Perhaps fighting against South African apartide? I'm sure there was at least 1 white guy shooting some black guys. You tell me.

Everything in the world is offensive to someone, we can't help that, but please show me all the black people that are offended that a game in Africa features black people.

Good point with Blood Diamond. I liked your post.

On that note, my wife and her family are from Sierra Leone. They were not offended by Blood Diamond. They don't like to watch certain parts of it because they lived through that, but they don't consider it racism to portray it.

Also, My wife and nephew saw RE5 demo and all this bullcrap that (I'm presumming white people) are saying would never even have crossed their mind. They saw it, didn't think anything of it. The truth is. ITS NOT OFFENSIVE. It isn't racist, it doesent psychologically ding bada doom bam ba, blah blah yakkety smakety.

All these other arguments about racial tone, too close to home. It's all bullshit. Africans don't give a fuck. I have Africans in my family, theyre only reaction to this would be, don't associate me with those complainers! It boggles my mind how people can sit around and come up with this shit.

Thank you for you and your family's perspective.  I believe you and sqrl have said very well what I was trying to say.

 



you're welcome.

Added note: when my wife read the thread she agreed with what I said, and also noted that 1. The main thing she didn't like with Blood Diamond was that parts of it were filmed in South Africa rather than Sierra Leone or nearby Liberia.

and also she commented "well yeah, I mean, there ARE a lot of black people in Africa, it's Africa".

She particularilly agreed with the "don't associate us with the complainers" part.

so yeah, your welcome again windbane.



"Let justice be done though the heavens fall." - Jim Garrison

"Ask not your horse, if ye should ride into battle" - myself

Kasz216 said:
Euphoria14 said:

No no no.

It was alright before because it was a white person shooting white zombies. Now it is a white person shooting black zombies.

Basically.

If it was a Black person shooting black zombies less people would care.

If it was a Black main character shooting white zombies, people would of claimed racism too likely.  (Though that it was showing black people as violent against white people.)

That and you know.... Africa isn't exactly the greatest place, and considering which part of Africa it's set in... the whole thing seems like it's taking from real life trajedys with ethnic cleansings in the area.

I mean... how would of people reacted had if during Indian resettlment someone wrote a book where all the Americans were infected with a disease that made them savage and wanting to kill anyone not like them.

There are some fair issues with the game being insensitive based on where it's based.

I agree 100% I think its  more a case of insensitivity then outright racism. In any case it doesn't leave a nice taste in my mouth.

 



 

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@ Sqrl:

I get what you're saying, and I do agree. It's maybe a bit much to say that RE5 is overtly, blatantly racist. I don't think it was a game that was constructed with the intent of proposing the superiority of one race over another.

I think we agree that it's offensive. But why is it offensive? For me, it's because it has these quiet, subtle racist undertones. The imagery is loaded with symbolism and past/present histories. It's not overt. It might not even be intentional. Honestly, I really think it just comes down to Capcom not thinking out the storyline/setting carefully enough. Great writers, they ain't.

@ Kasz & ocnkng:

Insensitive is an excellent way of describing this. Maybe just bad taste, or a poor choice.



And regarding what some people were saying about African relatives who are not upset about this, anecdotal evidence isn't a strong enough argument.

It's fine if you are African or African-American etc and are not offended by this, but that also doesn't imply that every black person in the world agrees on this (take N'Gai Croal for example).

We could sit here all day and just compare what our various black/white/Asian/ethnically diverse friends think of this, and be no further ahead.

I'm much more interested in discussing how visual choices like the ones in this game affect different people, and why.



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