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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Unbiased Facts About the NextGen Consoles -Revisited-

ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
Gnizmo said:
xman said: 

Ok I admit that was impressive I wonder if the weakest console wins every generation because its the cheapest?

 Weakest console doesn't always win. The Genesis and Dreamcast were both the weakest, and we know how Sega's story ended in the hardware department.

 

umm.. no. Just no. The Dreamcast was stronger than the PS2. The Genesis was stronger than the NES/Atari.


What freedquaker and the others have posted it true, the PS2 was more powerful than the Dreamcast. One of the only advantages the Dreamcas had over the PS2 was its ability to do tile based deferred rendering, and even that was just to make up for its horrible fillrate. And like I've already states, the Genesis was not more powerful than the NES. The genesis had a more powerful CPU than the NES but everything else was subpar. 

ssj12, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it goes against an opinion shared by others. However, there is no arguing this. This is fact. If you think the Gensis/Dreamcast games look better, than that is a matter of personal preference. Don't drag technology into it.

So pretty much its similar to the PS3 versus 360 now. PS3 has a stronger processor but weaker GPU. Thats exactly what I thought but thanks for backing up what I thought. I do know that the GSX, PS2's GPU, follows a very interesting design that doesnt act like a normal GPU does making it stronger than some GPUs of that time.

Still wasnt it also the same way with the Dreamcast? Stronger processor weaker GPU, thought it was how it was.

Also where is the Saturn in this? Stronger than the SNES or weaker, this I forget.

And why? I have a pretty damn good understand of technology, just not older console hardware past minor things I have read. I do understand the GC, Wii, PS3, and 360 pretty damn well.

 

No, it is nothing like the Xbox 360 vs Playstation 3. First of all, the SNES had double the memory of the Genesis and 8 times the audio memory. As a result, system memory had to be used for audio. Genesis could have a maximum of around 80 sprites on the screen at a time while the SNES could have around 128 with 4 very high resolution (at the time) backgrounds. SNES was also capalble of advanced matrix operations which the Genesis could only acomplish if it neglected everything else on the screen. SNES vs Genesis is more like the PS2 Vs Dreamcast than anything else. 

However, I can see how someone lacking real technical knowledge would land to this faulty conclusion. 

ssj12 said:
Khuutra said:
Gnizmo said:
ssj12 said: 

sure it wasnt imported? I do know many pawn shops imported it to the US around that time.

 Absolutely positive. The games were in English.

I can reconfirm this via a quick Virtual Console list, if need be.

 

I just looked it up. It was. The Master System II wasnt.

 

The Sega Master System II was also sold in North America, it just sold pretty poorly and was killed very quickly. I owned one.

.

 

 



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jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
Gnizmo said:
xman said: 

Ok I admit that was impressive I wonder if the weakest console wins every generation because its the cheapest?

 Weakest console doesn't always win. The Genesis and Dreamcast were both the weakest, and we know how Sega's story ended in the hardware department.

 

umm.. no. Just no. The Dreamcast was stronger than the PS2. The Genesis was stronger than the NES/Atari.


What freedquaker and the others have posted it true, the PS2 was more powerful than the Dreamcast. One of the only advantages the Dreamcas had over the PS2 was its ability to do tile based deferred rendering, and even that was just to make up for its horrible fillrate. And like I've already states, the Genesis was not more powerful than the NES. The genesis had a more powerful CPU than the NES but everything else was subpar. 

ssj12, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it goes against an opinion shared by others. However, there is no arguing this. This is fact. If you think the Gensis/Dreamcast games look better, than that is a matter of personal preference. Don't drag technology into it.

So pretty much its similar to the PS3 versus 360 now. PS3 has a stronger processor but weaker GPU. Thats exactly what I thought but thanks for backing up what I thought. I do know that the GSX, PS2's GPU, follows a very interesting design that doesnt act like a normal GPU does making it stronger than some GPUs of that time.

Still wasnt it also the same way with the Dreamcast? Stronger processor weaker GPU, thought it was how it was.

Also where is the Saturn in this? Stronger than the SNES or weaker, this I forget.

And why? I have a pretty damn good understand of technology, just not older console hardware past minor things I have read. I do understand the GC, Wii, PS3, and 360 pretty damn well.

 

No, it is nothing like the Xbox 360 vs Playstation 3. First of all, the SNES had double the memory of the Genesis and 8 times the audio memory. As a result, system memory had to be used for audio. Genesis could have a maximum of around 80 sprites on the screen at a time while the SNES could have around 128 with 4 very high resolution (at the time) backgrounds. SNES was also capalble of advanced matrix operations which the Genesis could only acomplish if it neglected everything else on the screen. SNES vs Genesis is more like the PS2 Vs Dreamcast than anything else. 

However, I can see how someone lacking real technical knowledge would land to this faulty conclusion. 

ssj12 said:
Khuutra said:
Gnizmo said:
ssj12 said: 

sure it wasnt imported? I do know many pawn shops imported it to the US around that time.

 Absolutely positive. The games were in English.

I can reconfirm this via a quick Virtual Console list, if need be.

 

I just looked it up. It was. The Master System II wasnt.

The Sega Master System II was also sold in North America, it just should pretty poorly and was killec very quickly. I owned one.

We arent comparing Genesis versus the SNES. We are comparing the Genesis to the FIRST Nintendo console.

Why did you bring the SNES into this when the SNES went against the Saturn?



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
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ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
Gnizmo said:
xman said: 

Ok I admit that was impressive I wonder if the weakest console wins every generation because its the cheapest?

 Weakest console doesn't always win. The Genesis and Dreamcast were both the weakest, and we know how Sega's story ended in the hardware department.

 

umm.. no. Just no. The Dreamcast was stronger than the PS2. The Genesis was stronger than the NES/Atari.


What freedquaker and the others have posted it true, the PS2 was more powerful than the Dreamcast. One of the only advantages the Dreamcas had over the PS2 was its ability to do tile based deferred rendering, and even that was just to make up for its horrible fillrate. And like I've already states, the Genesis was not more powerful than the NES. The genesis had a more powerful CPU than the NES but everything else was subpar. 

ssj12, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it goes against an opinion shared by others. However, there is no arguing this. This is fact. If you think the Gensis/Dreamcast games look better, than that is a matter of personal preference. Don't drag technology into it.

So pretty much its similar to the PS3 versus 360 now. PS3 has a stronger processor but weaker GPU. Thats exactly what I thought but thanks for backing up what I thought. I do know that the GSX, PS2's GPU, follows a very interesting design that doesnt act like a normal GPU does making it stronger than some GPUs of that time.

Still wasnt it also the same way with the Dreamcast? Stronger processor weaker GPU, thought it was how it was.

Also where is the Saturn in this? Stronger than the SNES or weaker, this I forget.

And why? I have a pretty damn good understand of technology, just not older console hardware past minor things I have read. I do understand the GC, Wii, PS3, and 360 pretty damn well.

 

No, it is nothing like the Xbox 360 vs Playstation 3. First of all, the SNES had double the memory of the Genesis and 8 times the audio memory. As a result, system memory had to be used for audio. Genesis could have a maximum of around 80 sprites on the screen at a time while the SNES could have around 128 with 4 very high resolution (at the time) backgrounds. SNES was also capalble of advanced matrix operations which the Genesis could only acomplish if it neglected everything else on the screen. SNES vs Genesis is more like the PS2 Vs Dreamcast than anything else. 

However, I can see how someone lacking real technical knowledge would land to this faulty conclusion. 

ssj12 said:
Khuutra said:
Gnizmo said:
ssj12 said: 

sure it wasnt imported? I do know many pawn shops imported it to the US around that time.

 Absolutely positive. The games were in English.

I can reconfirm this via a quick Virtual Console list, if need be.

 

I just looked it up. It was. The Master System II wasnt.

The Sega Master System II was also sold in North America, it just should pretty poorly and was killec very quickly. I owned one.

 

We arent comparing Genesis versus the SNES. We are comparing the Genesis to the FIRST Nintendo console.

Why did you bring the SNES into this when the SNES went against the Saturn?

AH, my mistake, it was a long day at work. Guess I misread NES and SNES :D 

EDIT: Actually, no, I meant Genesis VS SNES in my original post, just missed the S, so we were talking about the SNES, it's just that we didn't know lol.

And no, PS2 had a more powerful CPU and GPU than the Dreamcast.



Good news Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!

jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
jetrii said:
ssj12 said:
Gnizmo said:
xman said: 

Ok I admit that was impressive I wonder if the weakest console wins every generation because its the cheapest?

 Weakest console doesn't always win. The Genesis and Dreamcast were both the weakest, and we know how Sega's story ended in the hardware department.

 

umm.. no. Just no. The Dreamcast was stronger than the PS2. The Genesis was stronger than the NES/Atari.


What freedquaker and the others have posted it true, the PS2 was more powerful than the Dreamcast. One of the only advantages the Dreamcas had over the PS2 was its ability to do tile based deferred rendering, and even that was just to make up for its horrible fillrate. And like I've already states, the Genesis was not more powerful than the NES. The genesis had a more powerful CPU than the NES but everything else was subpar. 

ssj12, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it goes against an opinion shared by others. However, there is no arguing this. This is fact. If you think the Gensis/Dreamcast games look better, than that is a matter of personal preference. Don't drag technology into it.

So pretty much its similar to the PS3 versus 360 now. PS3 has a stronger processor but weaker GPU. Thats exactly what I thought but thanks for backing up what I thought. I do know that the GSX, PS2's GPU, follows a very interesting design that doesnt act like a normal GPU does making it stronger than some GPUs of that time.

Still wasnt it also the same way with the Dreamcast? Stronger processor weaker GPU, thought it was how it was.

Also where is the Saturn in this? Stronger than the SNES or weaker, this I forget.

And why? I have a pretty damn good understand of technology, just not older console hardware past minor things I have read. I do understand the GC, Wii, PS3, and 360 pretty damn well.

 

No, it is nothing like the Xbox 360 vs Playstation 3. First of all, the SNES had double the memory of the Genesis and 8 times the audio memory. As a result, system memory had to be used for audio. Genesis could have a maximum of around 80 sprites on the screen at a time while the SNES could have around 128 with 4 very high resolution (at the time) backgrounds. SNES was also capalble of advanced matrix operations which the Genesis could only acomplish if it neglected everything else on the screen. SNES vs Genesis is more like the PS2 Vs Dreamcast than anything else. 

However, I can see how someone lacking real technical knowledge would land to this faulty conclusion. 

ssj12 said:
Khuutra said:
Gnizmo said:
ssj12 said: 

sure it wasnt imported? I do know many pawn shops imported it to the US around that time.

 Absolutely positive. The games were in English.

I can reconfirm this via a quick Virtual Console list, if need be.

 

I just looked it up. It was. The Master System II wasnt.

The Sega Master System II was also sold in North America, it just should pretty poorly and was killec very quickly. I owned one.

 

We arent comparing Genesis versus the SNES. We are comparing the Genesis to the FIRST Nintendo console.

Why did you bring the SNES into this when the SNES went against the Saturn?

AH, my mistake, it was a long day at work. Guess I misread NES and SNES :D 

 

 

Still I did explain my lack of knowledge on older consoles. Oldest console I actually fully taken the time to look up the tech was the GameCube because someone wanted to know the GPU's name. heh

I have looked up information its just been a few years since i did. The Ps3 and 360 architectures I have read manuals on how to program for them and how things work. The Wii is similar to the GC in lot of ways if i remember right.

Edit: While you were comparing the SNES I was focusing on NES vs Genesis with my original post. So you were off to begin with.



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ssj12 said:

Still I did explain my lack of knowledge on older consoles. Oldest console I actually fully taken the time to look up the tech was the GameCube because someone wanted to know the GPU's name. heh

I have looked up information its just been a few years since i did. The Ps3 and 360 architectures I have read manuals on how to program for them and how things work. The Wii is similar to the GC in lot of ways if i remember right.

 

I've had the pleasure of programming for the Dreamcast, PSP, PS2, PS3, and Xbox 360. Granted, I didn't get a chance to really explore the Xbox 360 hardware since my programs were running on top of XNA, although I was able to benchmark it against my PC! Really is amazing how console programming has evolved. Assembly on the Dreamcast -> programming for the Cell PSEs is a VERY huge leap.

You do know more about consoles than most people, I guess I sometimes evaluate others based on what I know about it. I think it's pretty amazing that some of the people here don't work in the PC industry yet they know so much. If I came off as a douche at any point, I apologize. I just don't like people spreading misinformation on forums I visit. Nothing is worse than someone quoting incorrect information in Beyond3D or any other forum!



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ssj12 said:
Simple, the GC was horrid. I owned every Nintendo console made and still own my NES, SNES, and N64. The GC I dint even want to think existed and the Wii im considering buying again.

So imho the N64 lasted the time it was launched till the Wii was launched. The GC didnt exist because of how bad it was. The ColicoVision was better.

You will burn. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan said:
ssj12 said:
Simple, the GC was horrid. I owned every Nintendo console made and still own my NES, SNES, and N64. The GC I dint even want to think existed and the Wii im considering buying again.

So imho the N64 lasted the time it was launched till the Wii was launched. The GC didnt exist because of how bad it was. The ColicoVision was better.

You will burn. 

 



Tease.

Squilliam said:
Final-Fan said:
ssj12 said:
Simple, the GC was horrid. I owned every Nintendo console made and still own my NES, SNES, and N64. The GC I dint even want to think existed and the Wii im considering buying again.

So imho the N64 lasted the time it was launched till the Wii was launched. The GC didnt exist because of how bad it was. The ColicoVision was better.

You will burn. 

 

lol

 

 



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 

OK, on the whole console generation war thing that ssj12 has going:

The NES came out in the US in 1985. (1983 J; 1986 E)
The Genesis came out in the US in 1989. (1988 J; 1990 E)
The SNES came out in the US in 1991. (1990 J; 1992 E)
The Saturn came out in the US in 1995. (1994 J; 1995 E)
The PS1 came out in the US in 1995. (1994 J; 1995 E)
The N64 came out in the US in 1996. (1996 J; 1997 E)

You can see that the Genesis is partway between the NES and SNES; four years after the NES but two years before the SNES -- this is a significant time delay, but it's much closer to the SNES than the NES. The Saturn, on the other hand, is CLEARLY in direct competition to the PS1.

The N64 came later, so I could understand if you were to say that the Saturn and PS1 were both partway between the SNES and N64 -- four years after the SNES, but two years before the N64 (except in the US), just like the Genesis was to the NES and SNES. But this makes little sense, because it was the PS1 that defined the generation more than the N64.

In any case, to say that the PS1 was in the same gen as the SNES is madness, and that's the exact same argument as the one you're making. You might as well say that the Dreamcast was in the same gen as the PS1 instead of the PS2. Or maybe the DC and the N64 have their own generation in between SNES/Saturn/PS1 and PS2/GC/Xbox according to you? (I'm ignoring the "GC didn't exist" stance you took earlier to avoid having to kill you.)



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Squilliam said:
Final-Fan said:
ssj12 said:
Simple, the GC was horrid. I owned every Nintendo console made and still own my NES, SNES, and N64. The GC I dint even want to think existed and the Wii im considering buying again.

So imho the N64 lasted the time it was launched till the Wii was launched. The GC didnt exist because of how bad it was. The ColicoVision was better.
You will burn. 

I laughed for a minute straight.  Then I made eye contact with him again and had to keep laughing. 

Thank you Squilliam. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!