Coca-Cola said:
I highly doubt that because we are all Americans and want what is best. But ironically, that's what many conservatives said about the democrats in the past.
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You are right Coca. I do not want the country to suffer. I want this bill to provide productive and worthwhile stimuli that is not outrageous pork.
Theyd be better to just to wipe out any outstanding debts held by tax-paying citizens.
While that's more unlikely, the govt can revitalize spending by forgiving bad credit scores. People cant go out and buy houses and whatnot, which is causing the housing market to fall, all because their credit might not be good enough. The credit score system has pretty much crippled several markets.
| akuma587 said: Cutting taxes isn't that effective as a stimulus compared to other options. The multiplier effect of how many times those dollars will be re-spent is much lower than if the government spends that money on something. If you cut taxes in times like these, people often save the money or just pay down their debt, which is not the kind of thing that stimulates the economy. Some people think tax cuts are like voodoo magic and can do anything. I've never really understood why. |
Could it be that people saving some of that tax cut money would have been a good thing right about now? After all, the reason so many defaulted is they didn't have the money.
Given the massive amount of average debt each US citizen is in, we don't need to artificially grow jobs, we need to allow people to invest their own money in getting out of debt. Eventually, the money would go back into the 'system'.
It's funny, you argue that cutting taxes isn't a good stimulus, yet you can look at Ireland's choice to reduce their corporate taxes to one of the lowest levels in the developed world as being a critical factor in it's prosperity. Many other Eastern European countries are following suit to follow the same model.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
mrstickball said:
Could it be that people saving some of that tax cut money would have been a good thing right about now? After all, the reason so many defaulted is they didn't have the money. Given the massive amount of average debt each US citizen is in, we don't need to artificially grow jobs, we need to allow people to invest their own money in getting out of debt. Eventually, the money would go back into the 'system'. It's funny, you argue that cutting taxes isn't a good stimulus, yet you can look at Ireland's choice to reduce their corporate taxes to one of the lowest levels in the developed world as being a critical factor in it's prosperity. Many other Eastern European countries are following suit to follow the same model. |
Taking some pointers from Ronald Reagan. We need him now.
Coca-Cola said:
Taking some pointers from Ronald Reagan. We need him now. |
No. What we need is Ron Paul. Someone that isn't afraid to make cuts in the government to help reduce government debt, while reducing taxes.
We cannot have tax breaks with increased or stagnant government spending. I think Bush proved that quite eloquently with his smart tax cuts, and stupid government spending.
A president, congress, or whatever needs to stand up and say that government at the federal level is a joke. You cannot have 1 central government rule over 300,000,000+ people and expect it to be run efficently. More powers need to go to the states (yes, this is a neo-federalist view, but a proper one).
A few simple solutions would be:
Couple said spendature decreases with a reduction in payroll taxes and corporate taxes, and we'd put more dollars into people's hands while reducing the deficit. Sounds easy, but considering how antsy conservatives get about the military, and liberals about education spending...It wouldn't be easy.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
mrstickball said:
No. What we need is Ron Paul. Someone that isn't afraid to make cuts in the government to help reduce government debt, while reducing taxes. We cannot have tax breaks with increased or stagnant government spending. I think Bush proved that quite eloquently with his smart tax cuts, and stupid government spending. A president, congress, or whatever needs to stand up and say that government at the federal level is a joke. You cannot have 1 central government rule over 300,000,000+ people and expect it to be run efficently. More powers need to go to the states (yes, this is a neo-federalist view, but a proper one). A few simple solutions would be:
Couple said spendature decreases with a reduction in payroll taxes and corporate taxes, and we'd put more dollars into people's hands while reducing the deficit. Sounds easy, but considering how antsy conservatives get about the military, and liberals about education spending...It wouldn't be easy. |
yeah, Vouchers would be awesome. doesn't florida have this system put in by Bush? We need that in L.A.
mrstickball said:
Could it be that people saving some of that tax cut money would have been a good thing right about now? After all, the reason so many defaulted is they didn't have the money. Given the massive amount of average debt each US citizen is in, we don't need to artificially grow jobs, we need to allow people to invest their own money in getting out of debt. Eventually, the money would go back into the 'system'. It's funny, you argue that cutting taxes isn't a good stimulus, yet you can look at Ireland's choice to reduce their corporate taxes to one of the lowest levels in the developed world as being a critical factor in it's prosperity. Many other Eastern European countries are following suit to follow the same model. |
Changing consumer culture is not the government's job. Not to mention you are thinking way too highly of the American people if you think they will magically change their ways if you just throw money at them. And if you are just concerned with cutting down debt, shouldn't the government just hold onto the money?
The last thing we need is more tax cuts. Our government is running deeper and deeper into the red. Sure, everybody likes tax cuts, but what about when you need to raise taxes? That's not exactly something everybody wants to get behind.
Supply side economics has run its course, and it ran things pretty poorly while it was in the driver's seat. As soon as Reagan entered offices, deficits started to soar like nobody's business. It took a Democrat to run a surplus. Our corporations in the financial sector just single-handedly ran our economy into the ground. Why should we be running to cut corporate tax rates again? I guess if you want to give executives even higher bonuses that is a good strategy.
You know what the funniest thing is. That people making over $200,000 voted more for Obama than they did for McCain! And he ran on a campaign of raising their taxes! Are you suggesting that we should give the rich something they didn't vote for? That's anti-democratic! I won't stand for it!
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
akuma587 said:
Changing consumer culture is not the government's job. Not to mention you are thinking way too highly of the American people if you think they will magically change their ways if you just throw money at them. And if you are just concerned with cutting down debt, shouldn't the government just hold onto the money? The last thing we need is more tax cuts. Our government is running deeper and deeper into the red. Sure, everybody likes tax cuts, but what about when you need to raise taxes? That's not exactly something everybody wants to get behind. Supply side economics has run its course, and it ran things pretty poorly while it was in the driver's seat. As soon as Reagan entered offices, deficits started to soar like nobody's business. It took a Democrat to run a surplus. Our corporations in the financial sector just single-handedly ran our economy into the ground. Why should we be running to cut corporate tax rates again? I guess if you want to give executives even higher bonuses that is a good strategy. You know what the funniest thing is. That people making over $200,000 voted more for Obama than they did for McCain! And he ran on a campaign of raising their taxes! Are you suggesting that we should give the rich something they didn't vote for? That's anti-democratic! I won't stand for it! |
We ran a deficit to increase military spending to choke the USSR out of their capable military budget. It ended the Cold War. The US should focus on getting rid of nonessential Chicken-soup programs.
Will Republicans ever stop living in the glory days of Reagan...its honestly getting pretty sickening. Not to mention the American public sure hasn't responded very warmly to it the last two election cycles.
Looking backwards to the past is about the worst thing the GOP could do right now. America is not the same place now in 2009 that it was in 1980 and 1984. Its going to be an even more different place in 2012, and even more different than that in 2016. America is not a center-right country anymore, and living in that fantasy will hold the GOP back.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
In all honesty, a fiscal "boost" is not going to solve the crisis and stimulate the economy. I understand the Democrats' desire for infrastructure spending. I do not, however, understand why the Democrats are attempting to force and rush such projects. Let us discuss such projects in a timely and responsible manner. The bill passed by the House is not a stimulus package. It is an ineffective hodgepodge of spending increases and tax cuts.
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