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Forums - Microsoft - Does the 360 have any real exclusives?

dgm6780 said:
nightsurge - you have no idea what you are talking about. Most people do NOT buy computers at walmart or best buy. They buy from Dell or HP. And even at bestbuy, the cheapest computer in the "basic desktop" section is $369 and can play just about any game on the market.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9175064&type=product&id=1218045567985

Onboard video has gotten much better. I got the AMD 760 chipset with onboard ATI HD3200. It is directX 10 capable and can play any game I currently own, including Bioshock. Intel also has directX10 capable onboard graphics, and its only $57 for an ATI HD4550 which can play anything on the market.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125250

And why not discount the XBOX arcade, or whatever the gimped version is called. No HDMI & no HDD = worse then onboard PC graphics card.

I'm sorry, but as a system builder for many years, and a constant researcher in computer hardware, I can firmly and 100% assuredly say YOU are wrong.  When I said most people buy their computer from Wal-Mart or Best Buy, I include Dell and HP because those are the many computers that are SOLD at Wal-Mart and Best Buy.... sheesh.

Also, that computer would struggle at even 3-4 year old games, and could not even load a recent game.  The HD 3200 is one of those "exceptions" in onboard graphics I commented about a few posts ago.  The HD 4550 is enough for bare minimum medium settings gaming.  The 4670 is enough for high settings on many games, and the 4830 is enough for maximum settings on about any game.  When we are comparing performance, basically it means "comparable to the 360's graphics."  An HD4550 could play some PC games at medium settings very well, but not at the full 1920x1080 resolution with High details like the 360 can.  For that you would need a bare minimum 4670, or a 9600GT.

Some people on here just don't know what they are talking about when it comes to PC hardware.....

Oh and the Xbox 360 arcade has an HDMI port   And it is still capable of MUCH better graphics than ANY onboard PC chip, and many discrete cards.  The 360's gpu is actually comparable to about the 9600GT level or higher.



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Omac said:
If you play Mass Effect with GEForce 7100 (Integrated Graphics Card), it's going look and play like garbage.

Thank you Omac.  Good, so there are people on here with sense enough to understand and compare PC hardware and gaming performance.



dgm6780 said:
@nightsurge
I just read some of your responses you posted while i typed out my last reply and it seems your opinion of onboard video is stuck in 1998. You are dead wrong if you think the posted PC cant run Mass Effect.

Actually, I am dead right.  The PC can "run" Mass Effect, but it will be at VERY LOW settings with VERY CRAPPY quality.  No where near the 360's quality.  Man, people who own a PC automatically think they know a lot about computer hardware.  I guarantee I know 1000x more than you, and trust me, I know what I am talking about.  If I showed some of my PC forums these posts, they would all have a wonderful time laughing at you all that think integrated 7100's are enough to game on.

The HD 3200 onboard graphics, with motherboads like the 780G that support Hybrid Crossfire, those onboard chips can do some decent gaming.... but again, those are the "exceptions" I mentioned.

Just an example from 2007 even:
mass effect using integrated graphics
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25533357&union_id=7600&page=2



So nightsurge- Bioshock isnt a recent game? HD3200 runs in at 1280x1024 np

Even counting Dells and HP's sold thru wal mart/best buy, it isnt even close. Dell sells less then 5% of its computers thru 3rd party retailers. I actually work for the computer company that sells the most PCs worldwide, been there for over 3 years. So you keep reading benchmarking websites and pretend you know how and where most PCS are sold.



trust a forum junkie or someone who has real world experience designing/building/selling computers at the worlds leading computer manufactuer??

How much hands on have you had with all these video cards/ onboard solutions? Or do you just read? I get to play/test these systems everyday. We got in the demo lab a 2.3ghz dual core/2gb ram/onboard hd3200 with vista premium that can play wow at 50+FPS and Crysis is smooth as well.



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nightsurge said:
Rpruett said:

Quality, yes.  As proven in this thread and by Metacritic, the 360 has both MORE quality games, AND just plain more games.  Also, the "bad games" is just an opinion as many gamers will still enjoy those "bad" games.

You keep counting quality by quanity. Which is really quite ass backwards in the given premise.

By the OP's numbers :

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xbox 360 has 62 Exclusives. (We'll just take the top three categories).

90+

4.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 90+ rated games.

80+

22.5% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 80+ rated games.

70+

25.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 70+ rated games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS3 has 29 Exclusives. (We'll just take the top three categories).

90+

6.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 90+ rated games.

80+

41.3% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 80+ rated games.

70+

24.1% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 70+ rated games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Quality' favors the PS3 in this case.  If you add PC/360 games then it shifts to the 360, but in the given premise the PS3 clearly is the winner.  Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

 


First, most people aren't logical, I'm afraid.  Second, "most" of the good games on the 360 are not available else where.  Multiplats are, obviously, but we are arguing exclusives and the 360 STILL has more of those AND more HIGHER RATED ones.  Also, how would a PC of a minimum of $500 expense be a cheaper means than a $200 console?

Well generally since people have PC's for a garden variety of activities (Not related to gaming like browsing the web, doing your taxes, word processing, etc) It's not a sole expense for gaming.  So getting a 500 $ PC is certainly cheaper than buying a Family Computer and an Xbox 360.

 

That integrated chip is not capable of Mass Effect.  Integrated chips cannot be compared side by side with their discrete brethren.  Integrated chips have many holds that "discrete" cards do not, which is why PC "gaming" requires a discrete video card.  Also, as I said before, the "minimum settings" is for the bare minimum, looks like crap experience.  You need to go by "recommended settings" which I assure you the majority are no where close.  That gateway has everything needed to play Mass Effect EXCEPT a good video card.  If it has a GPU it would cost $200 more and then would easily run Mass Effect at good/acceptible settings.

 

Mass Effect would easily run on the 500$ PC I listed.  It actually would run marginally higher than the minimum settings as well.   Plenty of people play games on the minimum settings.   The enjoyment level of the game is perfectly fine.

 

Time and time you state this, yet time and time you are wrong by your own definitions.  You say that the amount of "good" exclusives is a determining factor, and the winner of that is who?  The 360.  I don't see how by your own standards a PS3 is a better option when it has less games AND less "good" games than the 360.  It doesn't matter if the 360 has more "bad" games so long as it still has more variety and more "good" games to keep everyone interested.  Please, just give it up!

 

It's quite simple.  If I didn't own a console as of today.  I wouldn't be longing for the heap of mediocre games released two years prior. I would look for a few older, cheaper titles and would be looking towards the future for upcoming 'newer' games.

Obviously the 360 has more titles released overall.  Most of them mean very little to the new consumer as of right now.  The consumer for the most part cares about a few exclusives/the current crop of solid games. The PS3/360 are on fairly equal footing when you look at the releases within the past year / year and a half.

 

Oh, and I argue with you because I can't stand ignorance.  You are wrong in so many ways....

 

Likewise friend. Likewise.

 

 

 



dgm6780 said:
So nightsurge- Bioshock isnt a recent game? HD3200 runs in at 1280x1024 np

Even counting Dells and HP's sold thru wal mart/best buy, it isnt even close. Dell sells less then 5% of its computers thru 3rd party retailers. I actually work for the computer company that sells the most PCs worldwide, been there for over 3 years. So you keep reading benchmarking websites and pretend you know how and where most PCS are sold.

Ok, you aren't getting this, so I'll type slowly....

I already mentioned many times that there are a very select few onboard chips which can perform decently well at low resolutions.  One of those is the HD3200.  Another is the GMA4500HD.  Understand?

Next, when I say Best Buy and Wal-Mart, and I say that includes companies like Dell and HP, I am saying that most people get their computer through an OEM such as these, and the most common form of graphics on these machines is integrated graphics which are much lower than the HD 3200 in quality and performance.  Understand?

Those PC's could "run" the game in the sense that it would load up and appear on the screen, but the maximum resolutions and settings are going to be much much lower than the 360's, and if they are using older chipsets (not the HD 3200 or GMA4500) then their maximum settings are going to be even lower (such as "Medium" details at 1280x800 or lower).  Those are no where near the settings you get with an Xbox 360.  Understand?

You actually expect me to believe you work for a computer company and yet you think an integrated chipset like the Geforce 7100 or 6150 can play Mass Effect with good details?  Seriously, you may work at a PC company, but you don't have anything to do with PC gaming divisions or advising others on what specs they will need.  I don't read benchmark websites except when determining what I want to build, and most of the time I am using my systems as benchmark crushers themselves.



dgm6780 said:
trust a forum junkie or someone who has real world experience designing/building/selling computers at the worlds leading computer manufactuer??

How much hands on have you had with all these video cards/ onboard solutions? Or do you just read? I get to play/test these systems everyday. We got in the demo lab a 2.3ghz dual core/2gb ram/onboard hd3200 with vista premium that can play wow at 50+FPS and Crysis is smooth as well.

I own my own business, I build at least 15 computers myself each month, and sell many others through distributers.  I own a motherboard with the HD 3200 chipset and have upgraded it to an Asus HD 4830 because I wanted to play games at an acceptible resolution with maximum settings, not the bare minumum 1280x800 with no AA and all low details.

I guarantee I have way more experience and knowledge in this field than you, my ill-advised friend.  Also, which company is this, exactly?



nightsurge said:
Omac said:
If you play Mass Effect with GEForce 7100 (Integrated Graphics Card), it's going look and play like garbage.

Thank you Omac.  Good, so there are people on here with sense enough to understand and compare PC hardware and gaming performance.

 

Yes. He obviously understands all of this because he agrees with you. 

 

And I guess you're the all knowing one since you've been a "System-Builder" for years. Lol.



Rpruett said:
nightsurge said:
Rpruett said:

Quality, yes.  As proven in this thread and by Metacritic, the 360 has both MORE quality games, AND just plain more games.  Also, the "bad games" is just an opinion as many gamers will still enjoy those "bad" games.

You keep counting quality by quanity. Which is really quite ass backwards in the given premise.

By the OP's numbers :

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xbox 360 has 62 Exclusives. (We'll just take the top three categories).

90+

4.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 90+ rated games.

80+

22.5% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 80+ rated games.

70+

25.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 70+ rated games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS3 has 29 Exclusives. (We'll just take the top three categories).

90+

6.8% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 90+ rated games.

80+

41.3% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 80+ rated games.

70+

24.1% of their 'exclusive games' released have become 70+ rated games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Quality' favors the PS3 in this case.  If you add PC/360 games then it shifts to the 360, but in the given premise the PS3 clearly is the winner.  Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

You are using percentages.  I am stating the fact that by shere NUMBERS the 360 has more games, and more higher rated games.  Not a higher "percentage" of well rated games.  The percentage doesn't matter if it still has more well rated games that people can buy.  Look at the wii, it has plenty of crap rated games and it still gets tons of software sales and has some well rated ones people buy.


First, most people aren't logical, I'm afraid.  Second, "most" of the good games on the 360 are not available else where.  Multiplats are, obviously, but we are arguing exclusives and the 360 STILL has more of those AND more HIGHER RATED ones.  Also, how would a PC of a minimum of $500 expense be a cheaper means than a $200 console?

Well generally since people have PC's for a garden variety of activities (Not related to gaming like browsing the web, doing your taxes, word processing, etc) It's not a sole expense for gaming.  So getting a 500 $ PC is certainly cheaper than buying a Family Computer and an Xbox 360.

But most people already own a PC from a few years ago, and to get a PC that will play on the same level as the 360 would cost an additional $100-150.

That integrated chip is not capable of Mass Effect.  Integrated chips cannot be compared side by side with their discrete brethren.  Integrated chips have many holds that "discrete" cards do not, which is why PC "gaming" requires a discrete video card.  Also, as I said before, the "minimum settings" is for the bare minimum, looks like crap experience.  You need to go by "recommended settings" which I assure you the majority are no where close.  That gateway has everything needed to play Mass Effect EXCEPT a good video card.  If it has a GPU it would cost $200 more and then would easily run Mass Effect at good/acceptible settings.

 

Mass Effect would easily run on the 500$ PC I listed.  It actually would run marginally higher than the minimum settings as well.   Plenty of people play games on the minimum settings.   The enjoyment level of the game is perfectly fine.

Really?  People enjoy games with extremely jaggy visuals, flat surfaces with no details, etc. etc.?  That may be true for some, but not a majority.

Time and time you state this, yet time and time you are wrong by your own definitions.  You say that the amount of "good" exclusives is a determining factor, and the winner of that is who?  The 360.  I don't see how by your own standards a PS3 is a better option when it has less games AND less "good" games than the 360.  It doesn't matter if the 360 has more "bad" games so long as it still has more variety and more "good" games to keep everyone interested.  Please, just give it up!

 

It's quite simple.  If I didn't own a console as of today.  I wouldn't be longing for the heap of mediocre games released two years prior. I would look for a few older, cheaper titles and would be looking towards the future for upcoming 'newer' games.

Obviously the 360 has more titles released overall.  Most of them mean very little to the new consumer as of right now.  The consumer for the most part cares about a few exclusives/the current crop of solid games. The PS3/360 are on fairly equal footing when you look at the releases within the past year / year and a half.

Again, you are not the average Joe consumer, so this does not apply.

Oh, and I argue with you because I can't stand ignorance.  You are wrong in so many ways....

 

Likewise friend. Likewise.

 

Ignorance is bliss..... or so I've heard.  Can you tell me what it's like from your personal experience?