The same way Live would include GFWLive (Which is also free).

We'll never have hard numbers on just XBL and just PS3 PSN numbers thanks to multiple platforms of delivery.

Which is a good thing, I suppose.

It's a good thing not to have the numbers or that there are multiple platforms?

Ah, I was just thinking about Live accounts with gold, silver, and Windows numbers when I started reading this.

Probably not much we can do about it, both Microsoft and Sony are going to be throwing out these numbers to try and look more impressive.

Not shocking considering the Xbox 360 doesnt even have 85% of users on Live.

No, it's good that there are multiple platforms to deliver content, not to not have numbers.

Truth, but the numbers are big and look good for both sides so they obviously flaunt it. It's like that girl across the bar with the obviously over-done boob job.  The boobs are big, albeit obviously fake, both sides like the boobs, so she is gonna flaunt it.

This does not surprise me.

I have two or three Games for Windows live accounts that count in MS LIVE account total. Whenever I need one, I always forget the account that I created, so I created a new account.

The thing that hurts that argument is that when MS spouted off their numbers they said that a majority of the 17million were paying subscribers.  Obviously no one can refute this because no one would know the numbers other than them but that's what was stated in the press release.

No, they said a majority were "gold".

IIRC, every system comes with five Gold subscriptions for one month, which aren't paid for.  So...   >_>

(Got the text below from this article)

Q) Microsoft recently claimed 17 million Live users and 28 million Xbox 360s sold...

A) Greenberg: Active users.

Q) Active. So what's the total of Live members that you've accumulated?

A) Greenberg: Uh... A significantly larger number than 17 million. To be clear, we are pretty conservative on how we report our members. It is active members — you have to own an Xbox 360 and if you're not active in the last six months, we recycle the gamertag and we remove your account. It is a true number of the people we have on the service.

I think it's important to note, if you compare those to PSN, those numbers you can have just a PSP, you can create an account on the Web. We don't count Web accounts.

You're an active member on PSN until you create an account. So, essentially forever. It's definitely apples to oranges when you compare those numbers.