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Forums - General - Building a new computer... suggestions?

Galaki said:
$179.99
Amd Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Dual Core Processor Socket AM2 Windsor 3.0GHZ 2000FSB 2X1MB 90NM Retail Box
$49.68 Coolermaster CAC-T05 Centurion 5 Aluminum ATX Tower Case 5X5.25 1X3.5 4X3.5INT SILVER-BLACK No PS
$109.18 Corsair HX520 CMPSU-520HX 520W Atx Triple 12V 40A Continuous 24PIN Atx Modular 120MM Power Supply
$137.55 EVGA NF59 Nforce 590 SLI ATX AM2 2PCI-E16 1PCI-E4 1PCI-E1 2PCI SATA2 RAID Sound GBLAN Motherboard
$170.13 Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 2GB 2X1GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800 Cl 4-4-4-12 240PIN Dual Channel Memory
$303.06 Evga E-GEFORCE 8800GTS 500MHZ 320MB 1.6GHZ GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I Hdtv Hdcp DIRECTX10 Video Card
$109.99 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache Ncq Hard Drive

Total: $1059.58 - $50 rebate

Total after tax and stuff: ~$1160

With this build. I can easily add ram and another video card in a year or 2 and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

But that also cost me an arm and a leg right now...

options:

  • cut back on MB and save $40 (nforce 590 to nforce 500)
  • cut back on cpu by $100 (down to 3800)
  • cut back on case/psu by $100 (to generic combo)
  • cut back on video card by $150 (down to 8600)

For HDD, i think 500G is the best GB/dollar, so, there's no need to cut there. Anymore ideas? keep? cut? I probably end up waiting a bit longer to get a new monitor with this kind of spending. Currently using 19''.


SLI: Few things I wanted to point out for you. You will probably want to upgrade your PSU in the future if you try to add another video card for SLI or crossfire. If you try to SLI anything in the 8800 series you are looking at 700W or more (check Nvidia's site for details, just keep in mind they tend to go a little overboard..but only a little). This sounds rediculous (and it is to some extent) but realise that like the monitor PSU's last a very long time and these kinds of PSU's usually have modular cables making them very versatile for the future.

Monitor: If you currently have a nice 19" and are willing to wait then doing so may be best option for you for now as prices will come down (they always do). And I always like the idea of rotating upgrades so I am never spending huge sums of money.

MB: nForce 500 is really just nForce 4 rebuilt with SLI support, where as nforce 590 was actually built from the ground up for SLI and is more like a full package. If you don't need all frills save the money, but if you want the nice extras its worth the cash.

Processor: Do not drop down to anything less than a 5200+, the reason for this is quite simply that the L2 cache got a big jump in the 5200+ and later. You want to look for "1MB x 2 L2 cache", it actually matters more than a lot of people know. (Avoid opterons as they are server chips). Oh, also...there is nothing wrong with AMD or Intel like Kwaad seems to think. It is just that for your price range I think the X2's fit your needs much better.

Case: Absolutely go generic, its not a big deal, looks are secondary unless you really must have something cool looking.

PSU: Make sure you get something 500W or better for an 8800 and if you are planning using this PSU for SLi get something 700W or better for 8800s. And if you are concerned with power consumption look for "80PLUS" certified on newegg, it will cost more initially but should pay for itself over time.



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one more thing....

 

Cooling: If you go without SLI you should be fine with a fan in the front & back of the case. Just keep in mind orientation, it is important since you want to create good airflow by having the front case fan suck air in and have the back case fan blow air out.

If you go with SLI you will want to fill all of the spots your case provides with fans as fans are rediculously cheap relative to replacing a video card. As you can tell there are a lot of considerations for an SLI setup, determining whether it is worth the hassle can be a real concern for some people, but I personally find it to seem far more daunting than it is.

For orientation always remember you want air to flow from the front of the case to the back..or more specifically from the bottom/front to the top/rear. Keeping your fans consistant with a predesigned airflow greatly increases their effectiveness.



To Each Man, Responsibility

As rendo suggesed above check out www.ncix.com. They have always been very reliable for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find some small shops in Toronto that could meet or beat the above prices and avoid shipping. At least there are many in Vancouver that could.



Galaki said:

106.99

Asus M2A-VM-HDMI AMD Socket AM2 ATX Motherboard / Audio / Video / DVI / HDMI / PCI Express / Gigabit LAN / USB 2.0 & Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID

159.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2.50GHz / 1MB Cache / 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) FSB / Socket AM2 / Dual-Core (Brisbane) / Processor with Fan

148.99

Asus EN8600GT SILENT/HTDP/256M nVidia 8600GT Chipset (540Mhz) 256MB (1.4Ghz) DDR3 Dual DVI PCI-Express Graphics Card

112.29

Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 Matched Pairs 2GB kit (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2-800 CL 4-4-4-12 240-pin Dual Channel Memory


How's this? (cut back on cpu/mb and boost vid card)

I can also do away with the overkill keyboard/mouse. But I would really like to keep the 22'' screen :) Is that card good for 1680x1050?

edit: formatting to make it easy to read

 


 Yeah, it would work, I have a 1680x1050 22" LCD monitor and it works fine with a nVidia 8600GT GPU. I'd say don't go for Vista yet, because I've had loads of probs with games, I'd suggest still buying a GPU that supports DX 10 though, because you're gonna have to switch to vista anyway, and you don't want to spend extra money upgrading your GPU at the same time.



One person's experience or opinion never shows the general consensus

PSN ID: Tispower

MSN: tispower1@hotmail.co.uk

Tispower said:

Yeah, it would work, I have a 1680x1050 22" LCD monitor and it works fine with a nVidia 8600GT GPU. I'd say don't go for Vista yet, because I've had loads of probs with games, I'd suggest still buying a GPU that supports DX 10 though, because you're gonna have to switch to vista anyway, and you don't want to spend extra money upgrading your GPU at the same time.


 Absolutely 110% do NOT get Vista.  Any performance increase you might get with DX10 is lost with Vista.  Maybe in a year with some patches it will be worth it, but right now it just simply isn't worth the headache.



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$269.97

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.0GHz / 2MB Cache / 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) / Dual-Core (Windsor) / Socket AM2 / Processor with Fan

This is fine for now.  You probably don't need the super-high end Intel CPU, and AMD should be coming out with a true Quad-Core one of these days.  Will it be AM2?  I don't know, I've been taking a little time off from keeping up on the bleeding edge since I built my PC.  I used a Athlon FX-60.

$59.97    x2   

XFX GeForce 7300 GT / 512MB DDR2 / SLI Ready / PCI Express / DVI / VGA / HDTV / Video Card

Okay, if you only change one thing about this configuration, make it this.  Get the GeForce 8800GTS or, if you really want to blow money, the 8800GTX or Ultra.  These two cards are not going to perform that well. 

 

$189.99       

EVGA nForce 590 SLI NVIDIA Socket AM2 (940) ATX Motherboard / Audio / PCI Express / SLI Ready / Dual Gigabit LAN / USB 2.0 & Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID

 

This is an expensive mobo, if you don't go SLI you can get one much cheaper.

$119.97       

OCZ SLI-Ready Edition Dual Channel 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 1024MB)

This is good.  I wish I had DDR2, but I didn't want to toss out my 3 gigs of DDR, so I bought the best CPU/motherboard combo that uses it, the Socket 939 Athlon FX-60.

$39.97       

Ultra / X-Finity / 600-Watt / ATX / Dual 80mm Fan / SATA-Ready / SLI Ready / Black / Power Supply

Overkill, definitely, as the others have said.  500 Watts is plenty.  Mine is only 430.

$146.99       

ThermalTake Tsunami Series Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case with Top USB, Firewire and Audio Ports - Black

I think you're getting robbed blind with this case.  Spend less here and put more money toward GPU, RAM, or HDD.

$119.97       

Western Digital / Caviar SE16 / 500GB / 7200 / 16MB / SATA-300 / OEM / Hard Drive

I don't buy into all that RAID this, RAID that.  Sure it could prevent data loss, but it wastes a LOT of space, duplicating data.  Your selection is fine, however, I prefer multiple drives, not in RAID configuration, but one for booting, Microsoft Office, and so forth, while the other has my games, songs, etc.

 $79.97       

Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard

Serious waste of money.  Get a cheap wireless keyboard, but make sure it has plenty of "shortcut" buttons along the side, such as Internet, Calculator, etc.

 $73.99       

Logitech G5 Laser Gaming Mouse

Only buy this if your mouse is broken, nobody can loan you one, this is the last mouse in the only store that is still open and your term paper is due in 2 hours.  Then return it the next day and get a refund.

$239.97       

Hyvision by Megavision MV220 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 5ms, 1000:1, WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050, DVI, VGA, Component Video, Black, Integrated Speakers

Excellent choice here. 

 

Total: $1400.46



rendo said:
#1 RAID5 requires 3 disks.

#2 Don't run RAID, especially 0 because if one drive fails, your entire system fails. You might get better performance, but you risk losing data, and if that happens you'll have great difficulty retrieving it. RAID1 would be better since it gives faster reading which is what you'll need for games, but slower writing, which won't be too noticeable.

Might want to look into the Q6600's, they've dropped down to sub $300 levels and will leave you set for the next 5 years.

Sorry, my bad - I meant matrix RAID. I think that's an Intel solution though...

It works fine. Matrix RAID combines the speed of RAID 0 with the redundancy of RAID 1. Basically you have two hard drives partitioned. One partition handles the RAID 0 bit while the other handles RAID 1. You place the OS and programs in RAID 0 and for your own files (read: My Documents) you have it set to RADI 1. That way you get a faster OS but reliable file storage.

If your RAID 0 poops on you, you just need to make sure you perform a backup with software like Acronis TrueImage. It's a lifesaver as well, once you get into the habit of backing up your data. With backup software you can be up and running in minutes if your RAID 0 dies. 



your mother said:
rendo said:
#1 RAID5 requires 3 disks.

#2 Don't run RAID, especially 0 because if one drive fails, your entire system fails. You might get better performance, but you risk losing data, and if that happens you'll have great difficulty retrieving it. RAID1 would be better since it gives faster reading which is what you'll need for games, but slower writing, which won't be too noticeable.

Might want to look into the Q6600's, they've dropped down to sub $300 levels and will leave you set for the next 5 years.

Sorry, my bad - I meant matrix RAID. I think that's an Intel solution though...

It works fine. Matrix RAID combines the speed of RAID 0 with the redundancy of RAID 1. Basically you have two hard drives partitioned. One partition handles the RAID 0 bit while the other handles RAID 1. You place the OS and programs in RAID 0 and for your own files (read: My Documents) you have it set to RADI 1. That way you get a faster OS but reliable file storage.

If your RAID 0 poops on you, you just need to make sure you perform a backup with software like Acronis TrueImage. It's a lifesaver as well, once you get into the habit of backing up your data. With backup software you can be up and running in minutes if your RAID 0 dies.


Most of those proprietary solutions cost extra, right?  Does Matrix Raid cost more to implement than, say, simply running RAID 0+1 or 1+0?  And if you're going to use backup software anyway, why not run a simple RAID 0?  



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thanks all for the useful inputs.
Basic idea from reading all that.

  • spend the most on GPU
  • CPU is second most expensive on that list, optimal would be about 2/3 of what the GPU cost
  • Followed by RAM which cost around 2/3 of the CPU
  • MB should cost around the price range of the RAM, slightly more if that MB is capable of future upgrades by adding additional parts, such as RAM, GPU, etc...
  • HDD, get the one that currently gives the most GB per dollar (500G currently)
  • Case - no conclusions
  • PSU - some say generic, some say a good one

I think, base on those responses, that's pretty much the idea to build.

Question on the case. Does aluminum case work better than steel? In term of heat issue, that is.

A good case would probably cost in the $100 range?

For PSU, is it better to get one that prepares for future upgrade of SLI/xfire? Or just buy a new one when I add another GPU? (I am thinking the prior)

For MB, I really would like an SLI/xfire ready, so, I can just stick another GPU in there in a year or 2 when that same card becomes dirt cheap. (The cards has to be exactly the same for SLI/xfire to work, right? same RAM, etc...) This is probably the thought one to shop around due to tons of choices with so many brands. And all those crazy acronyms.

I most likely will stick with AMD for the budget. I definitely want the 2MB cache version. 

It seems like most agreed that 8800 GT GPU is the best option.

Now, I am closer to my final choices. (bold choices are the primary must have parts)

GPU: 8800 GT  (dx10 ready that won't make this GPU obsolete by next year)
CPU: AMD windors 2MB cache (cache goes a long way)
RAM: ddr2-800 2GB (currently best price/performance)
HDD: 500GB SATA2 (currently best GB/dollar)
MB: can't decide whether to go SLI/xfire ready
PSU: decision based on MB
CASE: this is a though one to shop. I remember having to walk around many stores for like 3 hrs until i picked one

Which route would you take when you upgrade (assuming in 2-3 years)?

option 1:

  • add GPU and RAM
  • cost less now and more later

option 2:

  • replace MB and PSU
  • add RAM and GPU
  • cost more now and less later 


I think that your cooling solution is much more important than the type of metal in the case in terms of temperature control.  [edit:  However, the design of the case can be very important in terms of efficient or poor airflow.]

Although liquid cooling is nice, fans are much cheaper and quite effective. Get a case that supports large size (120mm) fans, because bigger fans can move more air at lower RPMs and thus more quietly than a small fan at high RPMs -- or, if you like, you can speed them up and move more air than a smaller fan could hope to.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!