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Forums - General - Thousands of Israelis protest war

MrBubbles on 09 January 2009
Coca-Cola said:
superchunk said:
Your points about Hamas not allowing dissension also would be squashed if Hamas no longer had the argument about Israeli brutality. Take away Hamas' reason to exist, Israeli actions in WB/Gaza, and you give the people, who don't like them and those who only like them for their actions against Israel, the ability to take back control.

You might be right but might be wrong.

I don't know much about the area except reading about it - never been there. 

I have a funny feeling that the Palestinians will be better off with Israel in control than Hamas.

 

 

they certainly would be.  arab-israelis compared to other arabs, have the most rights and freedoms in the arab world.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

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superchunk on 09 January 2009
Coca-Cola said:
superchunk said:
Your points about Hamas not allowing dissension also would be squashed if Hamas no longer had the argument about Israeli brutality. Take away Hamas' reason to exist, Israeli actions in WB/Gaza, and you give the people, who don't like them and those who only like them for their actions against Israel, the ability to take back control.

You might be right but might be wrong.

I don't know much about the area except reading about it - never been there. 

I have a funny feeling that the Palestinians will be better off with Israel in control than Hamas.

 

 

I think you missed my point. The problem isn't so much Hamas as a whole as it is Hamas' military wing. Their civil wing is much better actually than PA. Much less corrupt and does a much better job at building infrastructure and things the public actually needs. That is the primary reason Hamas decidedly won the elections.

To get rid of the military aspect, I argue, Israel needs to make some significant changes in the daily lives of Palestinians. No more prison, no more cutoffs for electricity/water/food/travel/etc.

 



superchunk on 09 January 2009
MrBubbles said:

 

 arab-israelis compared to other arabs, have the most rights and freedoms in the arab world.

true, however, it is still less than their Jewish counterparts. Not as bad as US racism 100 years ago, but not equal either.

 



MrBubbles on 09 January 2009
superchunk said:
MrBubbles said:

 

 arab-israelis compared to other arabs, have the most rights and freedoms in the arab world.

true, however, it is still less than their Jewish counterparts. Not as bad as US racism 100 years ago, but not equal either.

 

 

the only difference between the arab-israelis and the jewish ones is that the arabs are not required to serve in the army.  they choose not to and lose out on the benefits that provides.  there is also another social program which would provide the same benefits and they choose not to do that either.   the disparity between them is self-imposed.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

Kasz216 on 09 January 2009
superchunk said:
Coca-Cola said:
I'm sure it'll be in time.
I hope it's the same way in Palestine. more they protest against Hamas will help the situation as well.
Let's hope for the best.

 

Unfortunately, since the average Palestinian's standard of life is dramatically different than that of their Israeli counterpart, they are not forthcoming in protesting the only organization they feel does anything for them. Both militarily and civically.

 

Well that and unlike Israel if they did they would probably get killed.

Hamas has a way of well... killing people who disagree with it.

 



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Kasz216 on 09 January 2009
superchunk said:
Your points about Hamas not allowing dissension also would be squashed if Hamas no longer had the argument about Israeli brutality. Take away Hamas' reason to exist, Israeli actions in WB/Gaza, and you give the people, who don't like them and those who only like them for their actions against Israel, the ability to take back control.

That's a horrible arguement...

Take away Hamas reason to exist... and they'll just go away?

When has that ever happened?

Isn't it more likely Hamas would just take over the country via force?

 



superchunk on 09 January 2009

@Bubbles.

wrong.

Arabs cannot travel everywhere, they cannot buy homes in Jerusalem, they have special ID cards, they are not allowed in the military, they are considered 2nd class by the populace and therefore unable to get the better jobs etc.

Its like the US for many years before the civil rights movement. Sure on the surface most seem equal, but underneath there is a huge disparity between Arab and Jews in Israeli society, just like blacks in the US.



Kasz216 on 09 January 2009
superchunk said:
@kasz216 and Bubbles.

wrong.

Arabs cannot travel everywhere, they cannot buy homes in Jerusalem, they have special ID cards, they are not allowed in the military, they are considered 2nd class by the populace and therefore unable to get the better jobs etc.

Its like the US for many years before the civil rights movement. Sure on the surface most seem equal, but underneath there is a huge disparity between Arab and Jews in Israeli society, just like blacks in the US.

How does that make me wrong in anyway?

I said that Hamas if they lost favor would stage a military coup.

 



superchunk on 09 January 2009
Kasz216 said:
superchunk said:
@kasz216 and Bubbles.

wrong.

Arabs cannot travel everywhere, they cannot buy homes in Jerusalem, they have special ID cards, they are not allowed in the military, they are considered 2nd class by the populace and therefore unable to get the better jobs etc.

Its like the US for many years before the civil rights movement. Sure on the surface most seem equal, but underneath there is a huge disparity between Arab and Jews in Israeli society, just like blacks in the US.

How does that make me wrong in anyway?

I said that Hamas if they lost favor would stage a military coup.

 

my bad, pretend I wasn't calling you out in that post. :)

 



Coca-Cola on 09 January 2009

interesting read here.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090109/wl_mcclatchy/3141171
"Of course I am unhappy about the killings," said Hamdan, a 30-year-old building inspector in Ramallah , the de facto capital of the West Bank . "But Hamas is also responsible. They breached the truce. Israel is an aggressive entity at the end of the day, and Hamas knew this could happen."

Many said that was because Fatah leaders had deployed security forces to intimidate protesters and had banned displays of the Hamas flag. Several Hamas leaders continue to be held behind bars.