superchunk said:
Comrade Tovya said:
Uh, no, my story is a fact. She is one of the nicest and most honest people I have ever known. She's got the demeanor of a nun, so I highly doubt she would lie to me about that (because she loves her family, and wouldn't want to paint them negatively).
You are very rude. I don't mind if you dislike the story, but it doesn't change the face that it actually happened. So get over it. I know you have a reason to be biased (because of your wife), and you used racially anti-Jewish motivated speech in your post...
What the hell is the "Jewish Lobby" (as you said in the post prior to your response to me)? There is no such thing, and it only exists amongst anti-Semites. Now there is an "Israel Lobby" but it has more Christians as members than Jews. So trust me, there's no Jewish conspiracy here... and to even pretend like there is makes you look mentally feeble.
Now on to your "responses" as to why the story never happened:
A) Yes, the border patrol would let someone like her through. She is an American citizen, and this event happened prior to the latest intifada, so border regulations were quite lax at this time. Considering that you've never been to Israel nor passed through a check point, please don't pretend like you know anything about Israeli security.
B) Her father raised money for Arafat (prior to his death) via the Holyland Foundation, so I assure you they were more than welcome by Arafat and his cronies (and certainly her own family whom was supported by her father via money transfers from here in the states). Like I previously stated, this happened prior to the latest intifada, and Arafat was alive and well then.
C) I'm not saying that EVERY Palestinian is taught violence, just as every child who grows up in Compton doesn't join a street gang. But it has been proven that their ministry of education has indoctrinated their youth to perform violence against Jews.
What I am saying is a matter of fact that can be verified yourself (EXAMPLE 1, EXAMPLE 2, please tell me if you want more examples). The Palestinian Ministry of Education has been called out globally by th UN and other groups for teaching children how to fight at a young age, and learning Jew-hatred as a part of that education. This is not a matter of opinion, but a documented matter of fact.
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Sorry, I still think your full of it.
You described her in your original as a non-Muslim, with lots of tats, and so on. Then you described her as Muslim in a later post, unless you know two Palestinian-Jordanian women, when discussing out of the blue that your are not a Arab/Muslim hater.
I know Arab society very well, in particular Palestinians. If her family was anywhere near as radical as you claim, she would not be welcomed, at least not by anyone outside of her immediate family.
Also, even before this last uprising, Israel would not have let any Arab into Palestine with string connections to known terrorists, especially one who has sent money. This is Israel we are talking about. The same country who will destroy the homes of people's families they decide are 'terrorist'. Usually that just helps in their illegal expansions.
I never said there have been no incidents of taught hatred. But, that is not what your were trying to display. You are trying to convince us that all Palestinian youth are taught to carry AK-47s and hate/kill Jews. That simply is not so. Sure, the radical families, like Hamas, surely do this. But so do the terrorist Jews living in the settlements. That's why their youth go through local Arab villages causing fights, damage, and death to innocents nearly daily.
Also, for the record, I may not of actually been there myself, however, I spent over 5 years of phone conversations with four American-born 6-10 year old brothers who were terrified of Jewish soldiers and Jewish mobs, not because of thier education or parents, but because of what they witnessed.
Hiding on their floors at nights as Jewish Mobs of terrorists/settlers came through their village rampaging, shooting guns, beating up/killing any unlucky or foolish Arab who stepped outside. Never looking a IDF Soldier in the face for fear of getting hit.
Also AIPAC is not a Christian based lobby. It is a Jewish-Israeli lobby that is funded by a great majority of Jewish Americans both here and in Israel. Thus, it not racist/anti-semetic in the least to consider it a Jewish Lobby.
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A) I didn't say she was a "non-Muslim", I said she wasn't a devout Muslim. In other words, not very religious. Please read what I write so that we don't waste our time debating silly things.
Secondly, if you are a practicing Muslim, you'll know that there is no such thing as a "non-Muslim" in all reality. In the Sura Al-A'raaf it tells us that all human beings are born Muslims but upon becoming an adult make the decision to be unbelievers in the prophet and his teachings. Furthermore, Muhammad later taught the same thing in the Hadith Sahih Muslim.
B) Her family was tied in with the PLO and PLF, both not religious organizations, and Arafat welcomed her father because he was a close political ally and financial supporter of his regime.
C) Don't put words in my mouth, I specifically stated that not all Palestinians want to kill Jews. But the official stance of Hamas, the PLO, the PLF, and the Palestinian Ministry of Education central doctrine is the annihilation of Israel. If you choose not to believe this, read their charter's for yourself. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
D) Don't even start with the "Jewish mobs" crap. It's the same stories that started in medieval Europe about Jews using the blood of Christian children in matzos. They are urban legends that give people excuses to lead pogroms against Jews. The whole Jewish scapegoat thing got old 2000 years ago, so come up with a new excuse (like, blaming Palestinian leaders for impovershing their own people, which is another matter of factual significance!)
E) AIPAC is largely made up of Christian conservatives, and not Jews. You are not a member of AIPAC, and have no clue as to the makeup of it, so please stick to subjects that you are knowledgable in.
Lastly, please stick to intelligent debate with me. I'm not here to argue or fight, but to have sensible debates/discussion. I do not expect people to agree with me, nor I with them. But if we are just here to sling mud and make false accusations (like insulting close friends of mine) then this is just a waste of mine and your time.
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