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Forums - Gaming - The Final Fantasy franchise has become such a joke

Khuutra said:
Kasz216 said:
Comparing FF12 to tactics Ogre and Ogre battle...

it isn't even close.

Matsuno's early departure is eaisly apparent in FF12.

Well that and that after the Ogre Series he intentionally dumbed down the political plots for sales.

(he actually says this)

Kasz do you see what I did up there.

I will do it again but it would take a long time.

No, the story is not as intensely political in that it deals more specifically with the conflicts within houses, but that makes it no less mature in its storytelling.

No, what ruins the story is that it's paced poorly.

Sure it's bad to have all motivation spelled out in the beginning.  It's also just as bad to have all motivation held off till over halfway through the game.

Compare FF12, to Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together.

Denim... hates the Empire.  His father was kidnapped, the people in his villiage were slaughtered.

Van... hatest he Empire.  His brother was killed, as was the parents of his friends.

Denim... Joins the resistance because his people are put down opon, some being ethnically cleansed, starts a revolution with help of a Knight who he thought lead the massacre but later found out it wasn't him when he learned that said knight lost an eye. (And has purple hair.)

Vaan... steals something because he feels powerless and wants to get back at the empire... then... later joins a revolution with the help of a knight who he thought lead the massacre... but later decided it wasn't him... based on... his story that someone else looks just like him, with absolutely no corroberating evidence... and really Basche doing nothing to even suggest he was innocent other then say "Hey I'm innocent."

One of these makes sense... the other one... what's going on?



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Man Vaan saw Gabranth. Pretty early on, even. I can't remember if it was without his helmet, of course.

The primary reason he believed Basch was in watching him fulfill his duty to Ashe. That is not what one would call far-fetched.

But up you dukes, sir, this calls for fisticuffs.



Khuutra said:
Man Vaan saw Gabranth. Pretty early on, even. I can't remember if it was without his helmet, of course.

The primary reason he believed Basch was in watching him fulfill his duty to Ashe. That is not what one would call far-fetched.

But up you dukes, sir, this calls for fisticuffs.

It was with the Helmet.  (See that guy in the full armor... underneath it he looks just like me!  Promise!)

Though actuall it's not even that... since he sees him well before he meets basch.

He sees a guy in armor... who could be Darth Vader for all he knew.  Then he started to escape... met Basch, was pissed... basch said "I didn't do it... someone who looked like me did!"

They escaped... then he saw Basch argue with the leader of the resistance.  Then he said "I believe you! I know his death wasn't your fault."  For seemingly no reason.

Also... because.... he helped her escape.. when he himself had to escape being freaking tortured daily... where every sword is helpful to get out... that's... again... not convincing.

FF12 to me just felt like a dumbed down TO:LUCT with a lot of star wars influence thrown in.  They even take a few lines directly from Star Wars.



Vaan didn't trust Basch completely until Vossler betrayed them and Basch defended Ashe with his life. I think that's pretty reasonable.

I don't think claiming Star Wars influence is either reasonable or fair.



Khuutra said:
Vaan didn't trust Basch completely until Vossler betrayed them and Basch defended Ashe with his life. I think that's pretty reasonable.

I don't think claiming Star Wars influence is either reasonable or fair.

Really?

Basch's "Is this Airship enough for you kid" didn't sound the least bit familiar?

How come... lots and lots of people have independently drawn the same star wars connection?

A lot of the dialgoue, characters and even scenes look similar... a lot of Ivalace looks like it was taken straight out of the new and old star wars movies.



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Kasz216 said:
Khuutra said:
Vaan didn't trust Basch completely until Vossler betrayed them and Basch defended Ashe with his life. I think that's pretty reasonable.

I don't think claiming Star Wars influence is either reasonable or fair.

Really?

Basch's "Is this Airship enough for you kid" didn't sound the least bit familiar?

How come... lots and lots of people have independently drawn the same star wars connection?

You're thinking of Balthier, and confusing one of the tropes of the English language (sarcasm applied to exceeded expectations) with a quote from Star Wars. Not even in the same neighborhood.

I went over why in my Wall of Text above, but I also went over why it's unreasonable, short-sighted, and indicative of a mindset that isn't going to give the game its fair shot.



Khuutra said:
Kasz216 said:
Khuutra said:
Vaan didn't trust Basch completely until Vossler betrayed them and Basch defended Ashe with his life. I think that's pretty reasonable.

I don't think claiming Star Wars influence is either reasonable or fair.

Really?

Basch's "Is this Airship enough for you kid" didn't sound the least bit familiar?

How come... lots and lots of people have independently drawn the same star wars connection?

You're thinking of Balthier, and confusing one of the tropes of the English language (sarcasm applied to exceeded expectations) with a quote from Star Wars. Not even in the same neighborhood.

I went over why in my Wall of Text above, but I also went over why it's unreasonable, short-sighted, and indicative of a mindset that isn't going to give the game its fair shot.

All you went over is why it isn't a direct rip off... not that it didn't borrow heavily... which it did...

I mean even the Airships look very "New saga" star wars.

If you don't think Balthier was based off of Han Solo and David Bowie... i don't even know what to say.

There is nothing wrong with using influences... Ogre Battle has many other popular influences itself...

I mean look at the first game Ogre game.

Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen.

 



Games are a matter of opinion and taste. FFXII was epic, along with all of the other FFs I have played. See?



Balthier and Han Solo play from the same archetype in that they are both the rogue, but to claim that Balthier is based off of Han Solo is to ignore the thousands of years of storytelling and hundreds of thousands of characters who fulfill the same niche. There is a difference between shared tropes and cribbed tropes. Balthier and Han Solo both being rogues does not mean one cribbed off the other.

I'm not saying there aren't some influences - there is very much a Star Wars influence in the aesthetic of the game, and me denying that would be pure madness (especially given the setup of the final confrontation between Archades and Bujerba), but to pretend that the game has an especially large amount of Star Wars in the plot is not reasonable either.



Khuutra said:
Balthier and Han Solo play from the same archetype in that they are both the rogue, but to claim that Balthier is based off of Han Solo is to ignore the thousands of years of storytelling and hundreds of thousands of characters who fulfill the same niche. There is a difference between shared tropes and cribbed tropes. Balthier and Han Solo both being rogues does not mean one cribbed off the other.

I'm not saying there aren't some influences - there is very much a Star Wars influence in the aesthetic of the game, and me denying that would be pure madness (especially given the setup of the final confrontation between Archades and Bujerba), but to pretend that the game has an especially large amount of Star Wars in the plot is not reasonable either.

The Aesthetic is in a large part what drives a game.  Even more so then plot in some ways.

From the opening cutscene a lot of people are pretty much forced to think "Star Wars" as soon as they see the Starwars esque ships crash down on people.

Interestingly, despite our very similar tastes in games... the part you like most about FF12, is the part i like least.

What got me in FF12 is that i didn't want to move on in the story.  I found it painful and boring... full of characterzations and plot twists that made no sense.

Had they eliminated the story.... made the game about Van wanting to be "King of the Clan hunters" so he could build a big house for all the orphans to live in... where the story hardly ever came up outside of buying stuff with the loot you won like additions to the house and crap... and the whole game being hunts and grinding i'd of enjoyed the game a lot more.

Sad but true... and I'm the kind of person that usually loves complicated political styled plots.