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Forums - General Discussion - WSJ: Democracy loses if Prop. 8 is overturned.

I think because of the whole "Definition of marriage" thing it's a bit different though.

I mean seperate but equal... yet at the same time California still has Mens and Womens sports, Mens and Womens bathrooms... etc.

You're a Man, you join the men's baseball team. You're a woman your on the women's softball team... it's not even a baseball team.

Not sexuality, but it is sex.  Which is one of the original ones in the constitution. 



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The Ghost of RubangB said:


If we allow Prop 8 to pass, THAT will be a blow to democracy, because that will allow any majority to discriminate against the minority.

 

democracy allows the majority to discriminate against a minority if its their will.



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I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Same sex marriage in my opinion is okay, as long as they aren't able to adopt children. If they choose to marry someone of the same sex, they forfeit their right to have children.



If we didn't allow courts to make unpopular decisions then abortion would still be illegal in most states and schools would have been segregated much longer than they were.

Its a stupid argument that it defeats democracy, because one of the reasons the Constitution is there in the first place is to prevent the tyranny of the majority against minorities. That is a fundamentally anti-democratic principle, but pretty much everyone in the country believes in adhering to the Constitution. The Constitution requires us to go against what the people want sometime. That is just how it is.

I am not saying that Prop. 8 should be overturned, but this argument is too simplistic.



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Um... It is in the constitution now.... The would have to repeal the ammendment or the US const would have to be ammended to allow it, therefore superceding the Cali const.

It makes me wonder? If it is in the constitution how can it be unconstitutional... thus the reason why people against Gay marriage wanted an ammendment... The judges cannot mess with the constitution, they just interpet laws by it.



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As long as no one's hurt, why the hell would you interfere other's business, whether they marry the same sex?

And you would rather the children be living in orphanage than to be adopted and be loved?

IMO, having 2 dads or 2 moms is still better than none.



bigjon said:
Um... It is in the constitution now.... The would have to repeal the ammendment or the US const would have to be ammended to allow it, therefore superceding the Cali const.

It makes me wonder? If it is in the constitution how can it be unconstitutional... thus the reason why people against Gay marriage wanted an ammendment... The judges cannot mess with the constitution, they just interpet laws by it.

One of the challenges claims that Proposition 8 is actually a revision and not an amendment. If that is the case, then a two-thirds supermajority is required in both the House and Senate of California to pass the revisement. This argument has worked in the past and may work again. 

 



Kasz216 said:

I think because of the whole "Definition of marriage" thing it's a bit different though.

I mean seperate but equal... yet at the same time California still has Mens and Womens sports, Mens and Womens bathrooms... etc.

You're a Man, you join the men's baseball team. You're a woman your on the women's softball team... it's not even a baseball team.

Not sexuality, but it is sex.  Which is one of the original ones in the constitution. 

Naw, I don't think the "definition of marriage" thing makes this different.  That part is the religious argument which I don't think the laws should be paying any attention to whatsoever.  Churches can ban all the marriages they want to but the government can't.  I mean, it's legal for a priest to get married, but churches won't let them, right?

MrBubbles said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

If we allow Prop 8 to pass, THAT will be a blow to democracy, because that will allow any majority to discriminate against the minority.

democracy allows the majority to discriminate against a minority if its their will.

Then it's a good thing we don't live in a democracy.



The Ghost of RubangB said:

 

MrBubbles said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

If we allow Prop 8 to pass, THAT will be a blow to democracy, because that will allow any majority to discriminate against the minority.

democracy allows the majority to discriminate against a minority if its their will.

Then it's a good thing we don't live in a democracy.

And how.  Every social arrangement, including democracy, has its downsides.  Pure democracy allows the majority to tyrannize the minority, which is something the Founding Fathers were luckily against on a fundamental level.

I just think it is funny how so many people act like it is the courts who are going to far when you could just as effectively argue that it is the people who have gone too far and have undercut the principles of the Constitution.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson