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Forums - Gaming - How much longer will analog sticks be relevent in gaming?

Anlogue sticks are here to stay.

Not everything is gonna be motion controlled.

Many people prefer analogue sticks to mouse and keyboard any day.

Outside of RTS and maybe some FPS, I'll take a controller over a keyboard for games always.



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cringer8 said:
mancandy said:

You mean like in Missle Command? That was so 1980's.


lol

Or Centipede? But seriously, they've come a long way and could provide mouse-like control with just your thumb. How can that be a bad thing?

Centipede is awesome!!! Or Marble Madness. Trackball games are fun, but like your mother said,  it's about preference. I've tried the trackball for work and I found the mouse to be more precise for me.

 



Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

your mother said:
Desroko said:
your mother said:
Desroko said:
your mother said:
Desroko said:
I'd like to see touch pads icontinued; I like how the iPhone is used without a stylus, for example. There wouldn't be a need for d-pads anymore, which seem clunkier as time goes by.

I dunno. Touch pads can be nice, but there are two major inconveniences that I can think of off the top of my head:

  • Ever used a touchscreen-only remote control? They look slick and all, but you need to look at the screen to see which button you are pressing. With hard buttons (traditional remotes) you can feel the unique shapes and sizes of buttons which means you don't have to keep an eye on the remote in order to switch channels (which implies you take your eyes off the TV). Now put that into a gaming context and the problem is rather apparent.
  • Just imagine trying to pull off a "shoryuken" with a touchscreen!

I'm not sure either of this is really a problem. I've yet to see a game controller that has as many inputs as your average TV control, so it's not realy a valid comparison. The standard diamond-shaped pad can easily be recreated, as its four inputs in a rather large area, while a number pad has nine over a relatively smaller one. No one really looks down at the similarly-shaped face buttons on an Xbox or PS controller, because with a bit of practice your thumb knows where to go.

 

As for the second - just touch your thumb to the bottom of the pad and sweep it counter-clockwise for a quarter, and then press whatever corresponds to "Punch." To my mind this is quite a bit smoother than even the Xbox d-pad, which makes an effort to facilitate continuous motions.

I feel it would be a major issue as up to now I can't think of a DS title that utilizes the touchscreen that doesn't require you to fix your eyes on the screen to know what you are doing.

Well, with Mario Kart DS you just have to tap anywhere on the screen to switch between map modes, but then again, the touchscreen in this case serves only as a toggle.

Regarding the input issue: Let's compare a gamepad with a phone. They both have about the same number of buttons. I don't think you can dial a number on a touchscreen without looking at it. You can, however, do so with a phone with hard buttons.

I don't know how the iPhone handles this, but if they have come up with a way for you to dial a number without having to look at the touchscreen then I agree we may have a winner. Otherwise, I think touchscreen either needs to mature more, or perhaps there are other alternatives out there that are being researched.


I think I already mentioned this, but I'll explainmy thinking more clearly. Replicating a traditional nine-input number pad and a four-input d-pad aren't even close. The lower number of inputs and the different placement of the buttons make the latter far simpler.

But there's another issue - while it is indeed possible for you to recognize buttons on a d-pad by shape and placement alone, in practice very few gamers do. You don't feel for the Square button or X button - you know where they are. When holding a controller, your thumb can reach very few places, and the four buttons of a d-pad and the four quadrants of a similarly-sized touchpad are all in easy distance and set far enough from each other that you can easily find them, even under duress, without sight or touch. You just stab the area where you know the button to be, without hesitation.

This may be something that needs to physicaly verified in order to be believed (and unfortunately, I'm not going to whip up a prototype to prove my point), but I'm confident that this wouldn't be a problem.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me - if anyone is worried about knowing where you have pressed after you've done it, there's no reason for the pad to be physically indistinguishable from the casing. I'm seeing a circular pad, about the same size or slightly larger than an Xbox d-pad, raised slightly from the surface of the controller itself. That way you can feel the edge (or not) and know whether you've pressed in the center, the top, bottom, left, or right, or some combination. You'll be a natural in no time.


I'm not talking about comparing nine buttons on a phone with a d-pad. I'm talking about replicating all the buttons on a gamepad and incorporating them into a touchscreen. I think there would be an issue.

However, does anyone know how the iPhone works? I've heard some nice things about that screen, but up to now I haven't been able to get my hands on one so everything I know is still unfortunately theoretical.

I agree with the placement. You don't look at the buttons (Well, not the ones familiar to the controls anyhow! I do know people who still look to find the X or Y button because they don't play that frequently.) but again I am not sure if it would hold up under all circumstances (e.g. you shift your thumb a bit off-center to where the quadrants are aligned and you end up losing the "up" quadrant, for example. Sure, you can quickly look at the screen and shift your thumb accordingly to resolve the issue, but that is an issue that wouldn't exist with traditional buttons in the first place. Therefore, while it may improve certain aspects, it isn't without its problems.

The problem with having raised, indented or otherwise physical features on a touchscreen is that you are reducing its flexibility to that of assigned hard buttons (as per my previous reply to cringer8's post) which for me defeats the purpose of having a touchscreen in the first place - why replace buttons with what is essentially another set of buttons?


The first part is where we have to agree to disagree - I don't think there would be any greater problem than with buttons. I've known myself to slip off the up button during games - it's not a problem unique or even common to touchpads, in my experience. 

The bolded part is where there's a misunderstanding - I don't mean to have any physical features on the pad itself. I'm looking at the one on my laptop, which has no features whatsoever. I nonetheless know exactly where the edges are, roughly where I'm pressing even when I can't fell the edges (which is a defect caused by the rather large size of the pad on my computer, far larger than I imagine for gaming), and that the scroll area is along the right edge- without looking.

And my current situation is far less ergonomic than a gamepad. If my right hand is holding a controller in the standard position, my thumb can only go so far, and the pad would be within that range. The pad would be  circular, so you can easily tell when you press the edge that you're along the top, the bottom-right, the left, etc., and small enough so that if you're not pressing along an edge, you're pressing a single central area and can easily shift your position unthinkingly.  



ckmlb said:
Anlogue sticks are here to stay.

Not everything is gonna be motion controlled.

Many people prefer analogue sticks to mouse and keyboard any day.

Outside of RTS and maybe some FPS, I'll take a controller over a keyboard for games always.

Anlogue sticks are here to stay.

For the forseeable future, yes, I agree.

Not everything is gonna be motion controlled.

Definitely not; besides what's the need of having motion sensing in Tetris?

Many people prefer analogue sticks to mouse and keyboard any day.

True, but the reverse also applies (read: Bodhesatva).

Outside of RTS and maybe some FPS, I'll take a controller over a keyboard for games always.

That's where I go to extremes: No flight yoke, no flight sim. No steering wheel, no racing sim. I just love them peripherals! Keyboard just sucks for everything else.



Desroko said:
 

1) The first part is where we have to agree to disagree - I don't think there would be any greater problem than with buttons. I've known myself to slip off the up button during games - it's not a problem unique or even common to touchpads, in my experience.

2) The bolded part is where there's a misunderstanding - I don't mean to have any physical features on the pad itself. I'm looking at the one on my laptop, which has no features whatsoever. I nonetheless know exactly where the edges are, roughly where I'm pressing even when I can't fell the edges (which is a defect caused by the rather large size of the pad on my computer, far larger than I imagine for gaming), and that the scroll area is along the right edge- without looking.

And my current situation is far less ergonomic than a gamepad. If my right hand is holding a controller in the standard position, my thumb can only go so far, and the pad would be within that range. The pad would be circular, so you can easily tell when you press the edge that you're along the top, the bottom-right, the left, etc., and small enough so that if you're not pressing along an edge, you're pressing a single central area and can easily shift your position unthinkingly.


1) That's ok - that's what discussions are for! I'm actually so happy that for once there is a good-natured thread where there is actual debate yet devoid of fanboyism, trolling, insults and flaming. Fantastic.

2) However, it's still a physical feature! I understand what you are saying, but I also think that you can speculate as to the whereabouts of the edge by having felt that physical edge more than a couple of times, instilling familiarity into you. Nothing wrong with that either, but I feel there still is a physical element that plays a role here, even though that edge doesn't help you control anything but by virtue of it being there you know where your input mechanism's bounds are.

3) That is where I think issues may arise - different hand sizes and all.

I have no objection to seeing a pure touchscreen input for a console - or any other kind of control, as long as it works. Here's hoping a pure touchscreen input materializes in the near future - along with whatever smorgasbord of peripherals the console manufacturers and game developers have in store for us.



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Analogue sticks give a much greater control and precision over motion sensing devices .



I don't think anyone is saying that traditional game pads are literally going to disappear completely, I'm saying they'll become a peripheral, like the steering wheel. Something has to give -- there are too many standard control devices right now -- and I don't see it being anything other than the game pad. 



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Diomedes1976 said:
Analogue sticks give a much greater control and precision over motion sensing devices .

Try playing RE4 for GC/PS2 and Wii consecutively, and then say that with a straight face.



Diomedes1976 said:
Analogue sticks give a much greater control and precision over motion sensing devices .

 You mean like the mouse? Nice try. 



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your mother, I'm not gonna quote, cuz we're seriously stretching out the thread here, but at this point I don't see any real disagreements, just degrees of difference. I think we agree that we're going to see increased use of touch technology, and it's probably going to be in ways that we haven't even imagined. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Phantom Hourglass and Ninja Gaiden DS.