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Forums - General Discussion - America's March Towards Socialism

On November 4th, America overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama over John McCain in the mist of a financial crisis.  According to the National Journal, Barack Obama is the most liberal senator in the US Senate.  Indenpendet and self described democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders, ranked 4th on the list, but was not a liberal as Obama and his running mate, Joe Biden.  (http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm)

What does this mean?  An African American with a terrorist sounding name with policies more liberal than that of the only socialist in congress was elected to the highest office.  Hopefully America has thrown aside its fears of socialism in the same way that many have thrown away their fears of African Americans when they elected a black president.

Its no secret that democratic socialism is the most popular idealogy in the world, if political preference testing tells us anything.  Test yourself: (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)  Unfortunately, the right-wing has had a monopoly on social issues in America for decades, telling Americans to put up pictures of Jesus in church while they continue to grow the gap between rich and poor.

But as of late the free market has failed us, and unlike 1939 there is no ultimate government stimulus that can get the economy back on its feet.  Not suprisingly, while the West was bogged down by the free market, the economic 'poor' houses of Germany and the Soviet Union rose from the ashes to become superpowers with their different forms of government controlled economies. 

Its time for the American government to assume more control over our economy.  We need public works programs that improve the quality of life while creating jobs.  We need socialist education so that all students who wish to improve their lives and make more money for the economy have the opportunity to go to college.  We need a universal healthcare program that provides us with better quality and cheaper healthcare, just like much of Europe has done.  We need the government to further assume ownership opportunities in the banking sector.

And dont let the right-wing inscribe fear in you and keep you away from these noble goals.  Do you trust CEOs over elected officials who answer directly to you.  I could similarly ask, do you trust your friends more than complete strangers.  In both cases, we have more trust the people we choose (friends and elected officials) over people we are unfamilar with and have no control over (CEOs and complete strangers).



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you cannot be serious.... lol



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Um, I'd like universal health care, and a few other things, but that's not necessarily going to happen just because of this.



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ManusJustus said:

On November 4th, America overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama over John McCain in the miDst of a financial crisis.  According to the National Journal, Barack Obama is the most liberal senator in the US Senate.  Indenpendet and self described democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders, ranked 4th on the list, but was not a liberal as Obama and his running mate, Joe Biden.  (http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm)

The problem with that ranking is that it goes by voting with the Democratic Party, the D's aren't socialists or even liberal, they are center left.

 

What does this mean?  An African American with a terrorist sounding name with policies more liberal than that of the only socialist in congress was elected to the highest office.  Hopefully America has thrown aside its fears of socialism in the same way that many have thrown away their fears of African Americans when they elected a black president.

Don't get your hopes up.

 

Its no secret that democratic socialism is the most popular idealogy in the world, if political preference testing tells us anything.  Test yourself: (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)  Unfortunately, the right-wing has had a monopoly on social issues in America for decades, telling Americans to put up pictures of Jesus in church while they continue to grow the gap between rich and poor.

That test is likely to produce wide array of political ideologies in the US. And it still works, because rural populated states have more power per person.

 

But as of late the free market has failed us, and unlike 1939 there is no ultimate government stimulus that can get the economy back on its feet.  Not suprisingly, while the West was bogged down by the free market, the economic 'poor' houses of Germany and the Soviet Union rose from the ashes to become superpowers with their different forms of government controlled economies.

We don't have a free market, we never had one.  Market Failure happens, the US population despite voting for a liberal Democrat come from a broad array of political ideologies.  There were many reasons why people voted for Obama.  While most of the country supports Government backed-privatized health care, increasing education funding, and increasing retirement, disability, and unemployment benefits; not many support federally run employment agencies, labor unions, or nationalization of major industries.

 

Its time for the American government to assume more control over our economy.  We need public works programs that improve the quality of life while creating jobs.  We need socialist education so that all students who wish to improve their lives and make more money for the economy have the opportunity to go to college.  We need a universal healthcare program that provides us with better quality and cheaper healthcare, just like much of Europe has done.  We need the government to further assume ownership opportunities in the banking sector.

If you mean control by your examples of increasing government employment through education, building better infrastructure, universal health care, than yes.  If you want the government to own industry or banks in the long term, then you won't find many supporters in the US.  Competition and entrepreneurial spirit are the strength of the American system.  For how little is put into public education, so much innovation and productivity come out of it.

 

And dont let the right-wing inscribe fear in you and keep you away from these noble goals.  Do you trust CEOs over elected officials who answer directly to you.  I could similarly ask, do you trust your friends more than complete strangers.  In both cases, we have more trust the people we choose (friends and elected officials) over people we are unfamilar with and have no control over (CEOs and complete strangers).

Don't let the right-wing put fear in you.  But I would also tell people to be weary people who offer what isn't there's to give.  I must warn you CEO's and Politicians are not inherently evil, just as I tell the right that lawyers and academics aren't evil.

 

 

 



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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ManusJustus said:

And dont let the right-wing inscribe fear in you and keep you away from these noble goals.  Do you trust CEOs over elected officials who answer directly to you.  I could similarly ask, do you trust your friends more than complete strangers.  In both cases, we have more trust the people we choose (friends and elected officials) over people we are unfamilar with and have no control over (CEOs and complete strangers).

 

 Tell me the last time a CEO commited mass murdered, invaded a country, trampled citizen rights, siezed citizen property/taxes, killed citizens demonstrating against oppression, illegally ran unethical clinical trials on sick minorities, showed blatant disregard for humanity, and much, much more.

I can come up with literally hundreds of elected officials that have commited all such crimes since 1900's, but a single CEO... nope.

If you actually decide to learn and study history you'd find gorvernments, even democratic/representative ones, are the only entity with enough power to be truly evil.

I realize your mind wilts into a murderous rage when ever the letters C, E, and O combine, but really...try some rational tought.

 



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senseinobaka said: 

 Tell me the last time a CEO commited mass murdered, invaded a country, trampled citizen rights, siezed citizen property/taxes, killed citizens demonstrating against oppression, illegally ran unethical clinical trials on sick minorities, showed blatant disregard for humanity, and much, much more.

I can come up with literally hundreds of elected officials that have commited all such crimes since 1900's, but a single CEO... nope.

I guess you've never heard of several labor disputes in the United States where businessmen fought with, and in many cases killed laborers who were going on strike.   And dont you dare try to defend their 'mule is worth more than a man' mentatily (in reference to coal mining) because they had to buy a new mule if it died but they could hire a new worker at no new cost.  Or perhaps Nigeria, where labor union advocates and environmentalists (oil industry) are often executed.  Or Columbia, where labor leaders who try to form unions at such places as Coca Cola plants are often assasinated.

Your hatred of democracy is stunning.  Kim Jon Il calls himself president of the Democratic Republic of Korea, and he does many of these things, but he is far from an actual elected official who answers to his electorate.  Same goes for Adolf Hitler and countless other examples of so called elected officials, you couldnt vote Adolf Hitler out of being the Fuhrer.

For those elected officials who actually answer to the electorate, their actions are heavily scrutinzed by the people they serve.  And if their beliefs and actions migrate too far away from that of their electorate then they will no longer be in power.

How many wars in history have been fought by two democracies?  The answer is none, even though there are a few pseudo-examples such as the American Civil War, though no one would call the Confederacy where only a minority were able to vote a true democracy (if you ever get into political theory you'll learn how democracies justify who has the ability to vote, such as reasoning for why minors shouldnt vote.)



senseinobaka said:
ManusJustus said:

And dont let the right-wing inscribe fear in you and keep you away from these noble goals.  Do you trust CEOs over elected officials who answer directly to you.  I could similarly ask, do you trust your friends more than complete strangers.  In both cases, we have more trust the people we choose (friends and elected officials) over people we are unfamilar with and have no control over (CEOs and complete strangers).

 

 Tell me the last time a CEO commited mass murdered, invaded a country, trampled citizen rights, siezed citizen property/taxes, killed citizens demonstrating against oppression, illegally ran unethical clinical trials on sick minorities, showed blatant disregard for humanity, and much, much more.

I can come up with literally hundreds of elected officials that have commited all such crimes since 1900's, but a single CEO... nope.

If you actually decide to learn and study history you'd find gorvernments, even democratic/representative ones, are the only entity with enough power to be truly evil.

I realize your mind wilts into a murderous rage when ever the letters C, E, and O combine, but really...try some rational tought.

 

 

 What about the child labour and slave labour that corporations use to cut costs? Or the huge amount of pollution they put into the environment, that kills people. The CEOs of tabacco product companies? Coca-Cola killing unionists? PMCs? Causing high levels of unemployment in the Western world again to cut costs?



ManusJustus said:
senseinobaka said: 

 Tell me the last time a CEO commited mass murdered, invaded a country, trampled citizen rights, siezed citizen property/taxes, killed citizens demonstrating against oppression, illegally ran unethical clinical trials on sick minorities, showed blatant disregard for humanity, and much, much more.

I can come up with literally hundreds of elected officials that have commited all such crimes since 1900's, but a single CEO... nope.

How many wars in history have been fought by two democracies?

 

 UK-Argentina.



SamuelRSmith said:
ManusJustus said:

How many wars in history have been fought by two democracies?

 UK-Argentina.

Argentina was under a military dictatorship at that time.