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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Pre-owned market is "defrauding the industry"

rocketpig said:
Blah blah blah, wah wah wah.

I guess we're all lucky that Detroit and Tokyo don't expect us to crush our cars when we're done with them. God knows how much the used car market eats into their bottom line.

Some of these developers need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that if you make a good product, charge a fair price for it, and don't try to screw the customer at every turn, you'll get sales and make money. The used game business is no different than any other used business; it serves a great purpose for those that don't have enough money to buy every game brand new while it also puts money back into the system as people who buy new games sell their old games and use that money to purchase another new game.

The short-sighted nature of some people is really appalling.

 

 I agree with you 100%. 



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Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
Ah actually it appears Rental compies do pay royalties.... but on a montly basis based on what movies they have in stock, and not based on every time a movie is rented.

http://www.crc-scrc.ca/english/downloads/PACC_eng.pdf

At least in Canada.

 

We were both right, I did some research.

The way the business worked back in the VHS age in the US is that rental copies would cost a lot more but studio would get no cut out off rentals.

The way it now works for Blockbuster ( who controls over 25% of the US market) is that Blockbuster gets the movies for close to nothing, keeps 60% of the rental fee for themselves and pays the other 40% of the rental fee to the studio. So it's a little different from Canada....

Advantage of the new system being like I said in another post is that you don't have to limit the number of copies of new movies you get due to huge upfront fees and are able to better satisfy the customer's demand...

 

Yeah, that explains why Blockbuster seems to have like 40 copies of some movies.

Still, i wonder why they're able to sell those rental copies after like a month.

 



For those wondering, games sold as rentals are sold under a specific license that costs the rental retailer about $200 per rental copy.

So, in a sense, the rental games are "covered" as extra income for the publisher. Its really the used game sales that hurt the industry, not the rentals, although some genres are probably hurt more by rental issues than others.



Kasz216 said:
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
Ah actually it appears Rental compies do pay royalties.... but on a montly basis based on what movies they have in stock, and not based on every time a movie is rented.

http://www.crc-scrc.ca/english/downloads/PACC_eng.pdf

At least in Canada.

 

We were both right, I did some research.

The way the business worked back in the VHS age in the US is that rental copies would cost a lot more but studio would get no cut out off rentals.

The way it now works for Blockbuster ( who controls over 25% of the US market) is that Blockbuster gets the movies for close to nothing, keeps 60% of the rental fee for themselves and pays the other 40% of the rental fee to the studio. So it's a little different from Canada....

Advantage of the new system being like I said in another post is that you don't have to limit the number of copies of new movies you get due to huge upfront fees and are able to better satisfy the customer's demand...

 

Yeah, that explains why Blockbuster seems to have like 40 copies of some movies.

Still, i wonder why they're able to sell those rental copies after like a month.

 

There is probably a different agreement for resales of those videos they got for dirt cheap with the studio probably getting a cut on that too, depending on hold old the movie is.

Don't forget that resale of used copies of recent movies hurts Blockbuster renting business ( the earlier they sell those movies for cheap, the less likely people are to rent instead of buying..)

 

Still it seems to me like this would be a perfect way to counter sales of used games.

The business of selling used games thrives because of people buying games new on release day and reselling those shortly there after. Those people are not doing anything different from renting the game.

Make widely available cheap rental of games that includes royalties sharing with the publishers and those people will most likely move to renting ( especially if royalty sharing allow renting outlets to have a lot more copies available on release day).

Once they do, the main source of used games sold shortly after games releases will be gone and all will be back to normal......

 

PS : I can't believe Gamefly pays 200$ per game when I have been offered to keep for 40$ a game they shipped me on release day, that would be a huge loss for them. That offer came 4 days after the game release....

 



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

I think the real problem is why don't people go back to old games?

People go back to reread old books, people go back to listen to old cds... etc

Could it be that just the games just aren't good enough currently?

That 99% of "Epic game stories" would be regulated to saturday morning cartoon or straight to DVD release?



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The best way to combat Gamestop's practice, is for publishers to offer gamers some options, because if Gamestop didn't do it, consumers would goto eBay, Amazon and a host of other options to offload old games. Heck, even flea markets...This is capitalism, so they need to stop whining and get fesh ideas out there. Publisher need to put DRM on game disc to be require to have the disc in the machine, and try to find a way for them to get a piece of the action, and btw...having video games been making RECORD profits y-o-y? Are they pulling a page from the oil industry?



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

HappySqurriel said:

I don't have a problem with stores selling used games, but it should be clear to the person who is buying the game that the game is used.

 

Yes. That's the only B.S. I'm seeing here. Everything else is legit.



 SW-5120-1900-6153

rocketpig said:
Blah blah blah, wah wah wah.

I guess we're all lucky that Detroit and Tokyo don't expect us to crush our cars when we're done with them. God knows how much the used car market eats into their bottom line.

Some of these developers need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that if you make a good product, charge a fair price for it, and don't try to screw the customer at every turn, you'll get sales and make money. The used game business is no different than any other used business; it serves a great purpose for those that don't have enough money to buy every game brand new while it also puts money back into the system as people who buy new games sell their old games and use that money to purchase another new game.

The short-sighted nature of some people is really appalling.

 

nice comment.



Ail said:

There is probably a different agreement for resales of those videos they got for dirt cheap with the studio probably getting a cut on that too, depending on hold old the movie is.

Don't forget that resale of used copies of recent movies hurts Blockbuster renting business ( the earlier they sell those movies for cheap, the less likely people are to rent instead of buying..)

 

Still it seems to me like this would be a perfect way to counter sales of used games.

The business of selling used games thrives because of people buying games new on release day and reselling those shortly there after. Those people are not doing anything different from renting the game.

Make widely available cheap rental of games that includes royalties sharing with the publishers and those people will most likely move to renting ( especially if royalty sharing allow renting outlets to have a lot more copies available on release day).

Once they do, the main source of used games sold shortly after games releases will be gone and all will be back to normal......

PS : I can't believe Gamefly pays 200$ per game when I have been offered to keep for 40$ a game they shipped me on release day, that would be a huge loss for them. That offer came 4 days after the game release....

Ah, I guess I was right after my stealth edit.

More than likely, as was said with blockbuster, is that there is a licensing fee associated with any given game, and the publishers indeed get a cut of the profits.

It works the same way in the actual movie theatre business:

Warner Brothers (or whomever made it) makes a movie called "The Dark Night" - Theatres pick the movie up to show, but must pay 80% of their gross receipts to WB for the licensing fee under their contract. 80% rate lasts for 2 weeks.

After 2 weeks, the contract can be, and usually is, re-negotiated and changed to a lower rate. This is why (if you look into the movie industry, as I do very often) that many movies get dropped after 2 weeks: The theatre doesn't have the user base to market a given movie, and would rather go to another movie, or feels that the terms of the agreement aren't good.

Likewise, the longer a movie is out, the royalty rate/licensing fee drops considerably. This is why you have Dollar Theaters in the USA - the licensing fees are so minute for a movie 3+ months old, that a theater can make the same amount of money by charging $1 as a major multiplex can at $9 a ticket. This is also why movie food is so expensive: They make whatever they charge on the food, but not the movie ticket.

So having said all of that, I assume rentals are indeed the same way: Blockbuster produces a SKU readout (similar to a movie theater's ticket count) to ensure that proper revenue cuts are assured. It can be done, trust me.

So what happens when they sell a game? They are selling the licensing/viewing rights to the individual, and most likely then giving the distributor a cut on the sale, just like if the game was at retail.

Now, as for rocketpig's argument about used games: The issue isn't that used games are bad, but that Gamestop is bad. They are inherantly focused on used games, and NOT new games. Go to any GameStop in America: 50% of the items they have are used. Where I live, it's even worse, because they FAIL to purchase new games unless you pre-order! So 80% of the time, you can only get a game used - which leaves the distributor out of the loop, and murders them from getting compensation out of the game.

This is why digital distribution, despite it's flaws, is becoming so popular. Any developer makes a larger bit of money via DD as they do at retail. There are no used copies, and when that comes a long, the developer/publisher/distributor will manage, and compensate for it.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

heruamon said:
The best way to combat Gamestop's practice, is for publishers to offer gamers some options, because if Gamestop didn't do it, consumers would goto eBay, Amazon and a host of other options to offload old games. Heck, even flea markets...This is capitalism, so they need to stop whining and get fesh ideas out there. Publisher need to put DRM on game disc to be require to have the disc in the machine, and try to find a way for them to get a piece of the action, and btw...having video games been making RECORD profits y-o-y? Are they pulling a page from the oil industry?

Record gross, not record profits.  Pretty big difference there.  Dare I say... critical difference.