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Forums - General Discussion - Powells's Endorsement of Obama

akuma587 on 21 October 2008
bigjon said:
NJ5 said:

Final-Fan said:

(...)


2. Adam Smith

"I think a hybrid of his system is best. No regulation, but with strict oversight, which would kinda fit his system still because all oversight would be is protect the people."

This makes no sense. What is the difference? Are you saying that you want a system that identifies problems but is powerless to do anything about them?


I don't understand this "no regulation, strict oversight" thing either. Is it like having a policeman watching you being robbed and doing nothing about it?

 

 

 hmm, how do i put this using your cop analogy...

Regulation is like house arrest, you have a narrow amount of things to do and basically little freedom

Oversight is like being on parole. You are being watch closely and have a set amount of things you can't do, and if you disobey you get in trouble.

I guess a simple test is, Regulation tells what to do and how to do it, oversight makes sure you are not doing something you are not supposed to.

The problem with oversight is that many times the people in the industry are forking over money to people who are supposed to be looking over them so that they turn their heads.  I am not saying oversight isn't effective, but you are really overestimating how foolproof it is.  A smart combination of both is the most effective solution.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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akuma587 on 21 October 2008
steven787 said:
I think if Obama wins, you will see a lot more republicans open support him. For two reasons, 1. They care about the country, and want to put down fears and 2. they care about the party and want to shake the tarnish of the campaign off.

Ironically, this election will probably weed out a lot of the more moderate Republicans and leave a higher percentage of extreme conservatives in Congress because they live in districts that will vote for them no matter what happens (like my hometown, if you have a D beside your name, you lose, period.)

Expect the Republican party to be an even bigger embarassment than it was before.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

steven787 on 21 October 2008

Yes but in 2010 you may see more I's or L's.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Jackson50 on 21 October 2008

The election of Obama will usher in the 2nd "Era of Good Feelings." I can't stop thinkin about tomorrow.



steven787 on 21 October 2008

Well, that doesn't sound too bad. I'm just kidding but it would be a lot better than Great Depression II or WWIII.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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Final-Fan on 21 October 2008
bigjon said:
NJ5 said:

Final-Fan said:

(...)


2. Adam Smith

"I think a hybrid of his system is best. No regulation, but with strict oversight, which would kinda fit his system still because all oversight would be is protect the people."

This makes no sense. What is the difference? Are you saying that you want a system that identifies problems but is powerless to do anything about them?


I don't understand this "no regulation, strict oversight" thing either. Is it like having a policeman watching you being robbed and doing nothing about it?

hmm, how do i put this using your cop analogy...

Regulation is like house arrest, you have a narrow amount of things to do and basically little freedom

Oversight is like being on parole. You are being watch closely and have a set amount of things you can't do, and if you disobey you get in trouble.

I guess a simple test is, Regulation tells what to do and how to do it, oversight makes sure you are not doing something you are not supposed to.

So regulation is telling you what to do, and oversight is telling you what not to do?  I think it would prove pretty hard to separate the two.  And do you really disapprove of safety regulations?  And what about the fact that lack of regulation is considered to be the cause of the current crisis?  (If I understand it correctly, something to do with [edit:  never mind deleted part, someone said I'm wrong and I wasn't that sure], and securitization of mortgages so that no one really knew good from bad and it was too hard to renegotiate individual mortgages.)



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akuma587 on 21 October 2008

Its strange to me that many of the conservative VGChartz members are advocates of oversight when oversight actually requires the government to spend more money than regulation does. I am not saying that they don't have a point, I just find it kind of ironic that they are advocating more government positions.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

bigjon on 21 October 2008
akuma587 said:
Its strange to me that many of the conservative VGChartz members are advocates of oversight when oversight actually requires the government to spend more money than regulation does. I am not saying that they don't have a point, I just find it kind of ironic that they are advocating more government positions.

 

 I am not a republican, I am a fiscal conservative, therefore I usually vote for them. I am voting for my major and congressman who are democrats. The are fiscally sound however.

It is more about freedom. Regulation hampers economic freedom and stifles growth.

As far as safety regulations, many of them are annoying, and many are common sense.

Regulation cost more, it also requires oversight to implement the regulation.

@whoever said republican will cool on him after election.

I will give him a chance, its not like trashing him will help america any after the fact. Look what happened when the left trashed bush the last 8 years... The nation is more polarized than ever before. If Obama stands on his own 2 feet (not pelosi's) and does not try and cram a far left agenda down our throats he could be very good. The problem is I think that is what he wants to do.

Here is a dirty little secret. Talk radio sees this election as a win win... McCain wins, they are happy, Obama wins there radio ratings go through the roof... who ever heard of Limbaugh before Clinton was elected. Think about, they will have more to talk about.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

Jackson50 on 22 October 2008
Final-Fan said:

So regulation is telling you what to do, and oversight is telling you what not to do?  I think it would prove pretty hard to separate the two.  And do you really disapprove of safety regulations?  And what about the fact that lack of regulation is considered to be the cause of the current crisis?  (If I understand it correctly, something to do with investment banks merging with commercial banks, and securitization of mortgages so that no one really knew good from bad and it was too hard to renegotiate individual mortgages.)

 

The merging of investment banks and commercial banks did not cause this crisis. Many nations operate without this distinction, and the most secure banks during this crisis have been those banks that have combined investment and commercial banking. 

Wanting strict oversight with no regulation is tantamount to wanting a large police force with no weapons. Regulation is simply the manipulation of the market to get a desired outcome. Oversight is the watchful eye of the powers that be. Without regulatory powers, those who provide the oversight are impotent.



Final-Fan on 22 October 2008
bigjon said:
akuma587 said:
Its strange to me that many of the conservative VGChartz members are advocates of oversight when oversight actually requires the government to spend more money than regulation does. I am not saying that they don't have a point, I just find it kind of ironic that they are advocating more government positions.

I am not a republican, I am a fiscal conservative, therefore I usually vote for them. I am voting for my major and congressman who are democrats. The are fiscally sound however.

It is more about freedom. Regulation hampers economic freedom and stifles growth.

As far as safety regulations, many of them are annoying, and many are common sense.

Regulation cost more, it also requires oversight to implement the regulation.

[...]

But are you against safety regulations?  They're only "common sense" if you want to protect the health and safety of people.  For many companies, if their cost/benefit analysis says that the protections will cost more than the hurt people, then they won't do it.  This happened in many places before the regulations were imposed.  In fact, that's almost always the REASON they get imposed.  

By the way, he didn't say anything about republicans in that post, only conservatives.  Methinks thou doth protest too much.  



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!