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Forums - General Discussion - The sad state of the US people.

akuma587 said:

Your whole basis for your argument is that this is somehow unconstitutional.  The Constitution says you can't be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law (5th amendment) and the Declaration of Independence says you are entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

This is the preamble to the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility,defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And Congress reserves the right to:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Right there, you see those bolded words.  That is a broad swath of power the Founding Fathers intended to give Congress because the Articles of Confederation were horribly limited and were an absolute failure.  Congress could use the money it raises from taxes however it sees fit, and the public has a check on how they use that money because everyone in the House of Representatives is elected every two years, and conversely can be ousted every two years.  New taxes can only originate from the House.

There is nothing in the Constitution that says it is outside Congress's constitutional power to take your money and use it for the general welfare, such as universal healthcare or whatever else.  The Founding Fathers left a lot of freedom in there.  But the power you have over Congress is you can vote for who you want to be in office.

So really everything you are claiming is based off your flawed interpretation of the Constitution.  Congress can take your money and use it for whatever they see fit to promote the general welfare, and in return you can either elect them back into office if you like what they are doing or elect someone else if you don't.

 

 

You have a very warped view of the constitution, and what welfare means. It does not mean the same thing in the constitution as you think it means.

The "General Welfare" means you can't take money from one group and give it to another. See, the constitution was written to protect ALL people of the united states. Not just the ones you care about.



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Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [



TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:

Your whole basis for your argument is that this is somehow unconstitutional.  The Constitution says you can't be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law (5th amendment) and the Declaration of Independence says you are entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

This is the preamble to the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility,defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And Congress reserves the right to:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Right there, you see those bolded words.  That is a broad swath of power the Founding Fathers intended to give Congress because the Articles of Confederation were horribly limited and were an absolute failure.  Congress could use the money it raises from taxes however it sees fit, and the public has a check on how they use that money because everyone in the House of Representatives is elected every two years, and conversely can be ousted every two years.  New taxes can only originate from the House.

There is nothing in the Constitution that says it is outside Congress's constitutional power to take your money and use it for the general welfare, such as universal healthcare or whatever else.  The Founding Fathers left a lot of freedom in there.  But the power you have over Congress is you can vote for who you want to be in office.

So really everything you are claiming is based off your flawed interpretation of the Constitution.  Congress can take your money and use it for whatever they see fit to promote the general welfare, and in return you can either elect them back into office if you like what they are doing or elect someone else if you don't.

 

 

You have a very warped view of the constitution, and what welfare means. It does not mean the same thing in the constitution as you think it means.

The "General Welfare" means you can't take money from one group and give it to another. See, the constitution was written to protect ALL people of the united states. Not just the ones you care about.

What are you basing that off of?  You just pull things out of the air without any support.  Show me a U.S. Supreme Court decision, a federal court decision, or some kind of authoritative source that supports what you are saying.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

According to TheRealMafoo's ideas, I doubt many things are constitutional.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

TheRealMafoo said:
Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [

Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE

How is healthcare welfare?

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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akuma587 said:

the Declaration of Independence says you are entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

 

No, it does not say that. It says you are entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Life and liberty are rights that should be yours as human beings. Happiness you need to pursue. It's not to be given to you. You have to get it yourself.

It is the job of the government to make sure nothing stands in your way. We do a good job of that. No one can be denied of a job based on who they are, go to a school, own property... we all have the right to peruse happiness.

The problem is, the way you want to "help" people pursue that happiness, is by removing other peoples liberties.

They are not yours to take, and the constitution was written in a way to protect them from people like you. Sadly, someone like you is about to hold the highest office in the land. 



NJ5 said:
According to TheRealMafoo's ideas, I doubt many things are constitutional.

According to the constitution, many things we do as a country are not constitutional. Ron Paul was asked if our forefathers came back, would they be ashamed of what the Senate does today.

He said they would arrest every one of them

I am inclined to agree with him.

 



akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [

Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE

How is healthcare welfare?

 

 

Healthcare is not welfare (in your terms), as long as everyone who pays for it gets to use it. It is not going to be implemented that way.



TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:

the Declaration of Independence says you are entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

 

No, it does not say that. It says you are entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Life and liberty are rights that should be yours as human beings. Happiness you need to pursue. It's not to be given to you. You have to get it yourself.

It is the job of the government to make sure nothing stands in your way. We do a good job of that. No one can be denied of a job based on who they are, go to a school, own property... we all have the right to peruse happiness.

The problem is, the way you want to "help" people pursue that happiness, is by removing other peoples liberties.

They are not yours to take, and the constitution was written in a way to protect them from people like you. Sadly, someone like you is about to hold the highest office in the land. 

But you are against the government intervening in healthcare...and you claim that life is a right as a human being.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Cueil said:
steven787 said:
Cueil said:
steven787 said:
Because he was a sweet old man. How is anyone going to bad mouth a sweet old man...

He ended the cold war and got us back to hot wars...

 

Ask your parents how fun it was to have air raid drills and watch videos of people being blown to shit by Abombs... I'm sure if they were in school in the Cold War they went through some of that... I think Lewis Black said it best... "That was a scarcy fucking time to"

 

Ask me if I like buildings being crashed into, or friends dying because they joined the military to fight terrorism and get sent to Iraq for no reason at all.  This is called the age of Regeanism for a reason.

 

Your friends are obviously better than you... I wont go so far as to call you trash, but you lean dangerously close to being so.  More people die from idiots in the US every year than have died from both the attack and the war... you can't seriously be angry that your "friends" had the sense of patriotism to join a military that fights to protect you.  Regaurdless of where they are at now that is where their hearts where at and that's why they join.  And they don't get sent to Iraq for no reason... if you still think we are not there for a reason you have mental issues... we went in there for the wrong reasons, but we are certainlly not still there for the wrong reasons.

I'm not angry at my friends.  I don't see how it could have been read that way. 

I am angry at Republicans for killing them because they refuse to end the illegal occupation of another country, apologize to the world, and admit they were wrong.

 

Actually we are still in Iraq for the wrong reasons.  Because the administration was so hell bent on having it their way, they would not listen to anyone that had a different opinion on how it should be fought. If we just left today, except for a training group and equipment, the Iraqis would be better off.  Most of the attacks today in Iraq are solely as a statement to get the U.S. out.

 

You are right about more people dying from stupid stuff.  Let's look at some of the main causes.

Cancer: Republicans prevent research and encourage supersticious education.

Gun violence: Republicans oppose restrictions on use and sales of guns.

Automobiles deaths: Republicans opposed almost every motor vehicle safety regulation.

 

There are two reasons why people stoop to name calling: 1. They are unable to express there opinions in words how they feel, or 2. they are hateful, jealous, or angry.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.