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Forums - General Discussion - The 3rd Presidential Debate

steven787 on 16 October 2008
That Guy said:
Its official:

58% percent of americans polled smell what BaRack is cookin'

 

 

I am literally crying, that was the funniest thing I heard today.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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Final-Fan on 17 October 2008

I disagree with NJ5's article, but would agree that although oil independence is among the MOST important long-term issues facing the U.S., it probably wouldn't kill us to table it for at least 2 or 3 years in terms of additional government intervention, in favor of the immediate threat from the imploding economy.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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tokilamockingbrd on 17 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:
NJ5 said:
Retrasado said:

48 ok, what does the fact that we have 3-4% of the world's oil reserves have to do with the fact we use 25% of the world's oil? obama fail

It's relevant when they're talking about energy independence. You can't be independent if you're using more than your share of the pie.

By the way, here is a fact check on energy independence:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4647

 

North America has more oil than the entire Middle East---oil sands anyone?

 

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Mccain has been tightening in the polls a bit, and the reason people thought Obama won were more asthetic that substance.

However, yes, I think Obama has a 70% chance of winning if the election were held today.

 



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

NJ5 on 17 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:
NJ5 said:
Retrasado said:

48 ok, what does the fact that we have 3-4% of the world's oil reserves have to do with the fact we use 25% of the world's oil? obama fail

It's relevant when they're talking about energy independence. You can't be independent if you're using more than your share of the pie.

By the way, here is a fact check on energy independence:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4647

 

North America has more oil than the entire Middle East---oil sands anyone?

 

1- That's not true. The estimated recoverable amount is 173 billion barrels. That's less than Saudi Arabia, let alone the whole Middle East.

2- Those oil sands are not in USA, they're in Canada. They don't  count towards USA's energy independence.

3- Production of oil from oil sands is extremely dirty (CO2 emissions and waste water dumping), energy intensive (using a lot of natural gas to boil the sands) and water intensive (about 2-4.5 units of water per oil unit). Production is feasible, but has a lot of drawbacks which conventional oil doesn't.

 



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halogamer1989 on 17 October 2008
NJ5 said:
halogamer1989 said:
NJ5 said:
Retrasado said:

48 ok, what does the fact that we have 3-4% of the world's oil reserves have to do with the fact we use 25% of the world's oil? obama fail

It's relevant when they're talking about energy independence. You can't be independent if you're using more than your share of the pie.

By the way, here is a fact check on energy independence:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4647

 

North America has more oil than the entire Middle East---oil sands anyone?

 

1- That's not true. The estimated recoverable amount is 173 billion barrels. That's less than Saudi Arabia, let alone the whole Middle East.

A conservative estimate by analysts.

2- Those oil sands are not in USA, they're in Canada. They don't  count towards USA's energy independence.

They are in Montana as well.  In any case, I did mention North America which does not limit itself to just the US of A.

3- Production of oil from oil sands is extremely dirty (CO2 emissions and waste water dumping), energy intensive (using a lot of natural gas to boil the sands) and water intensive (about 2-4.5 units of water per oil unit). Production is feasible, but has a lot of drawbacks which conventional oil doesn't.

Granted, but there are methods being developed to use less in the refining process.

 



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NJ5 on 17 October 2008

A conservative estimate by analysts.

It's the official number, as are the Saudi Arabian ones. Where's the basis for your claim that NA has more oil than the middle east, or even Saudi Arabia alone? Please put some facts behind your claims.

They are in Montana as well. In any case, I did mention North America which does not limit itself to just the US of A.

We (or rather McCain and Obama) were talking about USA energy independence, not North American energy independence.

I never heard about oil sands in Montana. How many recoverable barrels there?

EDIT - I just found an article on those:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3868#more

That adds 3-4 billion barrels at best, not even close to the Canadian reserve size. Production is already ongoing there at < 75k barrels per day.

PS: The 3-4 billion barrels is "technically recoverable oil", which doesn't mean all of it is economically recoverable. Just though I'd highlight the difference.

 



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