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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Molyneux asking for special review consideration ...

WiiStation360 on 08 October 2008
Krill said:
PM has asked for a non-gamer to be allowed to give some feedback on the game to the reviewer. He obviously wants to show that this game is intuitive, will appeal to a wide audience and can be enjoyed by anyone.

He also mentions that co-op will be available shortly after launch so reviewers are fully aware that this aspect of the game has been addressed. If I was a reviewer and was critical of a game for not having co-op, only for it to be addressed within a week of launch, I'd feel a tool.

This memo from Peter Molyneux is only intended to make reviewers aware so that they can make proper, informed judgements about the game. He is not dictating how aspects of the game should to be reviewed.

This is an XBox 360 exclusive and all the people who are complaining on this thread are Sony diehards (including DMeisterJ). Why would they feel the need to do this? Surely it couldn't be that there is also a much hyped game launching for the PS3 on the same day and they are desperate not for it to be overshadowed?

Should reviewers also give LBP credit for the online co-op level editing when it was pulled and will be added in a patch?  Of course not.  Finish your game before you ship it.

 



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mike_intellivision on 08 October 2008

Peter Molyneux has a reputation for over-promising, under-delivering.
While personally I can identify with such, it does mean that people look at his work with a rather jaundiced eye.

So for him to make a request of who should review the game -- someone who doesn't play games and ironically probably would not otherwise be playing Fable II -- is going to get a negative reaction.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
DMeisterJ on 08 October 2008
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
Fuck that.

If people want to give Kojima flak for not being able to talk about the cutscene length, then we're going to give him flak on co-op.

Bull.

Molyneux is asking.  In fact, the impression I get is that he knows the reviews will be great in their own right, but feels that allowing a casual to play the game will unveil additional delights hardcore reviewers would miss.

I'm not really too concerned with the impression you get, I'm talking about what is stated.

Kojima got flak for MGS4 review consideration, so he will get flak in equal or greater value.  Period.

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

He's obviously not going to be as absolute as Kojima was with MGS4, as he saw the flak it got.  So saying "please" doesn't make it any different.  He's asking for the same kind of special consideration.

As someone has already said, he has a reputation for promising much, and delivering none. So he wants someone who hasn't played his games, or sipped his juice, so that when we see how much he has over promised and undelivered (hopefully not ^_^) they don't fault him for it.

Sorry.  Not buying this B.S.  

We gave Kojima flak, he's getting some too.  It's the same thing.

 



Krill on 08 October 2008
WiiStation360 said:
Krill said:
PM has asked for a non-gamer to be allowed to give some feedback on the game to the reviewer. He obviously wants to show that this game is intuitive, will appeal to a wide audience and can be enjoyed by anyone.

He also mentions that co-op will be available shortly after launch so reviewers are fully aware that this aspect of the game has been addressed. If I was a reviewer and was critical of a game for not having co-op, only for it to be addressed within a week of launch, I'd feel a tool.

This memo from Peter Molyneux is only intended to make reviewers aware so that they can make proper, informed judgements about the game. He is not dictating how aspects of the game should to be reviewed.

This is an XBox 360 exclusive and all the people who are complaining on this thread are Sony diehards (including DMeisterJ). Why would they feel the need to do this? Surely it couldn't be that there is also a much hyped game launching for the PS3 on the same day and they are desperate not for it to be overshadowed?

Should reviewers also give LBP credit for the online co-op level editing when it was pulled and will be added in a patch?  Of course not.  Finish your game before you ship it.

 

There is nothing wrong with a reviewer stating that he was unable to comment on an aspect of a game because it had not been included at time of going to press, but that the game publisher does intend to add it at a later date; I don't care what game it is or for which console.  Saying 'Finish your game before you ship it' is all very well but in the real world publishers endeavour to work towards a release date that is announced well in advance and have to arrange the completion of the work, publishing , shipping and promotion geared towards that release date.  

 



starcraft on 08 October 2008
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
Fuck that.

If people want to give Kojima flak for not being able to talk about the cutscene length, then we're going to give him flak on co-op.

Bull.

Molyneux is asking.  In fact, the impression I get is that he knows the reviews will be great in their own right, but feels that allowing a casual to play the game will unveil additional delights hardcore reviewers would miss.

I'm not really too concerned with the impression you get, I'm talking about what is stated.

Kojima got flak for MGS4 review consideration, so he will get flak in equal or greater value.  Period.

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

He's obviously not going to be as absolute as Kojima was with MGS4, as he saw the flak it got.  So saying "please" doesn't make it any different.  He's asking for the same kind of special consideration.

As someone has already said, he has a reputation for promising much, and delivering none. So he wants someone who hasn't played his games, or sipped his juice, so that when we see how much he has over promised and undelivered (hopefully not ^_^) they don't fault him for it.

Sorry.  Not buying this B.S.  

We gave Kojima flak, he's getting some too.  It's the same thing.

No strings attached explanation versus straightout blackmail.

They are completely different situations.  Molyneux is explaining that in his opinion Fable 2 could be enjoyed by the hardcore and casuals alike (whether this is true or not, it certainly wasn't for MGS4).  But at the end of the day, reviewers are free to completely ignore that opinion with no consequences.

Konami BANNED reviewers from talking about non-appealing features in MGS4, withholding review copies for those that refused to sign agreements to that effect.

I'm sorry DMeisterJ, but your console allegiences are at play here.

Furthermore, I don't recall the "we" giving Kojima flak ever including YOU.

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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DMeisterJ on 08 October 2008
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
Fuck that.

If people want to give Kojima flak for not being able to talk about the cutscene length, then we're going to give him flak on co-op.

Bull.

Molyneux is asking.  In fact, the impression I get is that he knows the reviews will be great in their own right, but feels that allowing a casual to play the game will unveil additional delights hardcore reviewers would miss.

I'm not really too concerned with the impression you get, I'm talking about what is stated.

Kojima got flak for MGS4 review consideration, so he will get flak in equal or greater value.  Period.

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

He's obviously not going to be as absolute as Kojima was with MGS4, as he saw the flak it got.  So saying "please" doesn't make it any different.  He's asking for the same kind of special consideration.

As someone has already said, he has a reputation for promising much, and delivering none. So he wants someone who hasn't played his games, or sipped his juice, so that when we see how much he has over promised and undelivered (hopefully not ^_^) they don't fault him for it.

Sorry.  Not buying this B.S.  

We gave Kojima flak, he's getting some too.  It's the same thing.

No strings attached explanation versus straightout blackmail.

They are completely different situations.  Molyneux is explaining that in his opinion Fable 2 could be enjoyed by the hardcore and casuals alike (whether this is true or not, it certainly wasn't for MGS4).  But at the end of the day, reviewers are free to completely ignore that opinion with no consequences.

Konami BANNED reviewers from talking about non-appealing features in MGS4, withholding review copies for those that refused to sign agreements to that effect.

I'm sorry DMeisterJ, but your console allegiences are at play here.

Furthermore, I don't recall the "we" giving Kojima flak ever including YOU.

lol.

And your console allegiences aren't?

It's okay Starcraft, I don't expect you to accept the truth.



starcraft on 08 October 2008
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
Fuck that.

If people want to give Kojima flak for not being able to talk about the cutscene length, then we're going to give him flak on co-op.

Bull.

Molyneux is asking.  In fact, the impression I get is that he knows the reviews will be great in their own right, but feels that allowing a casual to play the game will unveil additional delights hardcore reviewers would miss.

I'm not really too concerned with the impression you get, I'm talking about what is stated.

Kojima got flak for MGS4 review consideration, so he will get flak in equal or greater value.  Period.

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

He's obviously not going to be as absolute as Kojima was with MGS4, as he saw the flak it got.  So saying "please" doesn't make it any different.  He's asking for the same kind of special consideration.

As someone has already said, he has a reputation for promising much, and delivering none. So he wants someone who hasn't played his games, or sipped his juice, so that when we see how much he has over promised and undelivered (hopefully not ^_^) they don't fault him for it.

Sorry.  Not buying this B.S.  

We gave Kojima flak, he's getting some too.  It's the same thing.

No strings attached explanation versus straightout blackmail.

They are completely different situations.  Molyneux is explaining that in his opinion Fable 2 could be enjoyed by the hardcore and casuals alike (whether this is true or not, it certainly wasn't for MGS4).  But at the end of the day, reviewers are free to completely ignore that opinion with no consequences.

Konami BANNED reviewers from talking about non-appealing features in MGS4, withholding review copies for those that refused to sign agreements to that effect.

I'm sorry DMeisterJ, but your console allegiences are at play here.

Furthermore, I don't recall the "we" giving Kojima flak ever including YOU.

lol.

And your console allegiences aren't?

It's okay Starcraft, I don't expect you to accept the truth.

Thats ok.  I didn't expect you to abandon the blind, arrogant self-belief you've recently adopted.

Nor did I expect you do actually engage with the content of my posts.

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

DMeisterJ on 08 October 2008
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
Fuck that.

If people want to give Kojima flak for not being able to talk about the cutscene length, then we're going to give him flak on co-op.

Bull.

Molyneux is asking.  In fact, the impression I get is that he knows the reviews will be great in their own right, but feels that allowing a casual to play the game will unveil additional delights hardcore reviewers would miss.

I'm not really too concerned with the impression you get, I'm talking about what is stated.

Kojima got flak for MGS4 review consideration, so he will get flak in equal or greater value.  Period.

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

He's obviously not going to be as absolute as Kojima was with MGS4, as he saw the flak it got.  So saying "please" doesn't make it any different.  He's asking for the same kind of special consideration.

As someone has already said, he has a reputation for promising much, and delivering none. So he wants someone who hasn't played his games, or sipped his juice, so that when we see how much he has over promised and undelivered (hopefully not ^_^) they don't fault him for it.

Sorry.  Not buying this B.S.  

We gave Kojima flak, he's getting some too.  It's the same thing.

No strings attached explanation versus straightout blackmail.

They are completely different situations.  Molyneux is explaining that in his opinion Fable 2 could be enjoyed by the hardcore and casuals alike (whether this is true or not, it certainly wasn't for MGS4).  But at the end of the day, reviewers are free to completely ignore that opinion with no consequences.

Konami BANNED reviewers from talking about non-appealing features in MGS4, withholding review copies for those that refused to sign agreements to that effect.

I'm sorry DMeisterJ, but your console allegiences are at play here.

Furthermore, I don't recall the "we" giving Kojima flak ever including YOU.

lol.

And your console allegiences aren't?

It's okay Starcraft, I don't expect you to accept the truth.

Thats ok.  I didn't expect you to abandon the blind, arrogant self-belief you've recently adopted.

Nor did I expect you do actually engage with the content of my posts.

"Blind, arrogant, self-belief"

lol...  I don't know what that means.



DMeisterJ on 08 October 2008

 

Double post?  WTF.



Killergran on 08 October 2008
starcraft said:

And what is stated is completely out of step with your interpretation.

What Molyneux said is this:

“I have a favour to ask you — we built this game not only to appeal to gamers like yourself, but to appeal to anybody. So please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn’t play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it’s only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through.”

The co-op thing was simply him outlining the feature.  Tell me DMeisterJ, where in there does it say reviewers are not allowed to review the game if they don't take account of Molyneux's considerations?

 

 

Seriously, this is the letter Nintendo should have put in with review copies of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Brain Training and Nintendogs. And Wii Music, when that time comes. 'Fable is for everyone'. Yeah right :)

Seriously though. A game should not really be reviewed on what other people experience it to be. Neither should it be reviewed based on how the game changes between players and playstyles. Reviews are not based on potential, neither are they about how others see, experience, play, think, act. It's subjective.

I wouldn't care if someone had a totally different experience with the game if I sit at home being bored with the game.

Also, telling or asking a reviewer what to review is not good. Ever. Lots of companies are trying to do this, and they deserve all the flac they can get. The moment we let the industry dictate the reviews they loose all their meaning. Then they only serve as extra advertisement for the games.

That said, I belive that Fable II has the potential to be a really good game, and I cannot see it getting bad reviews because of any of the issues taken up in the letter.



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