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Forums - General - Harvard Economist (and 166 others) agrees with my views on the bailout! :)

fkusumot said:

Priceless...

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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Jackson50 said:
fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

First off, the Great Depression was caused my the government not following the constitution, and this economic crisis is created for the same reasons,

How do you figure that?

I am not going to say it was an issue of constitutionality or not, even though some of FDR's policies were rules unconstitutional. The cause of the GD was an inflationary boom that could no longer be sustained. With that being said, the GD was prolonged because of government intevention. 

Correct. The government stepped, and price fixed (or tired to). They did the same thing they with farming that they are trying to do now. They plowed over crops why people starved to death in order to try and keep the price of food high. This they thought would help the economy. It took a 1 year problem, and made it 10.

Now what's the real problem this time around? Simple. There are more houses then people want to buy. The government inflated the housing market with sub prime loan incentives. This made houses in demand, so when something is in demand, builders build a lot of them. When builders catch up to demand, the price of homes flatten out (as they should). That means everyone who was on an adjustable mortgage interest rate (only people who want to live above there means do this), could not refinance there homes as no new equity exists in it. Now there payment jumps and they need to sell it (along with thousands of others who did the same thing). Now people who are banking on the housing boom to continue stop buying homes, and more hit the market because they can't afford them. Now supply is higher then demand. What then happens? Values go down. So the people who can't afford to keep there homes, also can't afford to sell them. They default.

Now what is the government going to do? Step in and buy up all these loans that are defaulting. Are they going to kick people out of there homes and resell them like would happen in a free market? I am sure not. They will probably some up with some agreement on the new value of the home, and make them only pay that and eat the losses. This is called price fixing.

They are trying to do with homes what they did with food in the 30's. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Prices will fall in a market. Every year will not be better then the last. When that happens, the government throws away the rules, and tries to help. Those rule are there for a reason, and need to be followed, most of all, when we are hurting.

 



Oh, and this price fixing thing is two fold here. Not only will they try and stabilize the home market, they are wanting to by mortgage securities that banks cant sell. They can't sell them because they are not worth anything.

If they are not worth anything, then why are we buying them? I know the answer in principle, banks need capital short term, and the government can hold on to these things longer... bla bla bla...

It's a horrible idea. It's price fixing mortgage securities. I guess this famous line is true:

Those that don't understand history, are doomed to repeat it.



TheRealMafoo said:
Jackson50 said:
fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

First off, the Great Depression was caused my the government not following the constitution, and this economic crisis is created for the same reasons,

How do you figure that?

I am not going to say it was an issue of constitutionality or not, even though some of FDR's policies were rules unconstitutional. The cause of the GD was an inflationary boom that could no longer be sustained. With that being said, the GD was prolonged because of government intevention. 

Correct.

Incorrect. Your historical revisionism is fanciful but not entertaining. And once again, how was the Great Depression caused by not following the Constitution?

You do pretend to know a lot about economics and banking and how people make money (and lose it). Do you make a lot of money or do you just talk a good game? Just wondering if your theory of how the world works is any good in practice. Or are you practicing it? And how exactly would that work?



fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Jackson50 said:
fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

First off, the Great Depression was caused my the government not following the constitution, and this economic crisis is created for the same reasons,

How do you figure that?

I am not going to say it was an issue of constitutionality or not, even though some of FDR's policies were rules unconstitutional. The cause of the GD was an inflationary boom that could no longer be sustained. With that being said, the GD was prolonged because of government intevention.

Correct.

Incorrect. Your historical revisionism is fanciful but not entertaining. And once again, how was the Great Depression caused by not following the Constitution?

You do pretend to know a lot about economics and banking and how people make money (and lose it). Do you make a lot of money or do you just talk a good game? Just wondering if your theory of how the world works is any good in practice. Or are you practicing it? And how exactly would that work?

 

Are you saying it is incorrect that government intervention prolonged the Great Depression? If that is the case, I disagree with that assetion. That government intervention saved the economy is more myth than fact. It is the same assertion that Hoover was a do nothing president...all myth and no substance.



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fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Jackson50 said:
fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

First off, the Great Depression was caused my the government not following the constitution, and this economic crisis is created for the same reasons,

How do you figure that?

I am not going to say it was an issue of constitutionality or not, even though some of FDR's policies were rules unconstitutional. The cause of the GD was an inflationary boom that could no longer be sustained. With that being said, the GD was prolonged because of government intevention. 

Correct.

Incorrect. Your historical revisionism is fanciful but not entertaining. And once again, how was the Great Depression caused by not following the Constitution?

You do pretend to know a lot about economics and banking and how people make money (and lose it). Do you make a lot of money or do you just talk a good game? Just wondering if your theory of how the world works is any good in practice. Or are you practicing it? And how exactly would that work?

 

I do pretty well. I drive a $90,000 car, and live in a 2,300 square foot home on a lake, with 14 acres of land, in a vacation town.

I was also born poor and work for a living, so I would say my understanding of how economics work has been put into practice.

 



TheRealMafoo said:

I do pretty well. I drive a $90,000 car, and live in a 2,300 square foot home on a lake, with 14 acres of land, in a vacation town.

I was also born poor and work for a living, so I would say my understanding of how economics work has been put into practice.

 

 

What's that, a Hummer? So what's your secret? Based on your criteria you're doing much, much, much better than me.



fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I do pretty well. I drive a $90,000 car, and live in a 2,300 square foot home on a lake, with 14 acres of land, in a vacation town.

I was also born poor and work for a living, so I would say my understanding of how economics work has been put into practice.

 

 

What's that, a Hummer? So what's your secret? Based on your criteria you're doing much, much, much better than me.

 

No, a porsche 911 convertible (26 miles to the gallon :p). I happen to find software development enjoyable, and took that as a career (I am a consultant). I would say I am lucky in the fact that my profession is in demand, but on 2003 it tanked. I was unaffected due to my dedication to my work.

My secret is simple. Never loose focus on why you are being paid, and what it takes to make you invaluable to the people who pay your salary. Never have I negotiated money, and never have I worried about work. I have always had companies fighting for me, as apposed to the other way around. A strong work ethic goes a long way.

This is why I find it hard to sympathies with those in need (not including this disadvantaged). We live in a country mainly of the lazy and complacent. It takes very little effort to stand out and succeed. I find it hard to blame anything other then the individual for there position in life.



fkusumot said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I do pretty well. I drive a $90,000 car, and live in a 2,300 square foot home on a lake, with 14 acres of land, in a vacation town.

I was also born poor and work for a living, so I would say my understanding of how economics work has been put into practice.

 

 

What's that, a Hummer? So what's your secret? Based on your criteria you're doing much, much, much better than me.

 

No, a porsche 911 convertible (26 miles to the gallon :p). I happen to find software development enjoyable, and took that as a career (I am a consultant). I would say I am lucky in the fact that my profession is in demand, but on 2003 it tanked. I was unaffected due to my dedication to my work.

My secret is simple. Never loose focus on why you are being paid, and what it takes to make you invaluable to the people who pay your salary. Never have I negotiated money, and never have I worried about work. I have always had companies fighting for me, as apposed to the other way around. A strong work ethic goes a long way.

This is why I find it hard to sympathies with those in need (not including this disadvantaged). We live in a country mainly of the lazy and complacent. It takes very little effort to stand out and succeed. I find it hard to blame anything other then the individual for there position in life.



TheRealMafoo said:

No, a porsche 911 convertible (26 miles to the gallon :p). I happen to find software development enjoyable, and took that as a career (I am a consultant). I would say I am lucky in the fact that my profession is in demand, but on 2003 it tanked. I was unaffected due to my dedication to my work.

My secret is simple. Never loose focus on why you are being paid, and what it takes to make you invaluable to the people who pay your salary. Never have I negotiated money, and never have I worried about work. I have always had companies fighting for me, as apposed to the other way around. A strong work ethic goes a long way.

This is why I find it hard to sympathies with those in need (not including this disadvantaged). We live in a country mainly of the lazy and complacent. It takes very little effort to stand out and succeed. I find it hard to blame anything other then the individual for there position in life.

I suppose you might consider me quite simple in my career choice. I served in the military for 20 years and then retired and took up a second career as a watchmaker. The military never paid enough to get something like a 911 convertible. As a watchmaker I'll certainly make much less than a software consultant. I can see how you would blame me for my position in life, choosing a career in the Army that automatically limited my income; and a second career that I enjoy but is not an extremely high paying job.

I bow to your economic prowess:

1. Choose high-paying profession.
2. Work Hard and make sure the right people notice it.
3. Get a little bit lucky.
4. Do not sympathize with those in need.
5. ???
6. Profit!!!