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Forums - General - AP: House appears to reject massive bailout plan

TheRealMafoo said:

 

Because we are being doped by congress. It's bad, but not The Great Depression bad. In the great depression, 40% of all home loans defaulted. Right now we are at 4%. In the 30's we did not have FDIC, so most people lost there entire life savings. That can not happen today. Not all banks have stopped giving loans. It's only the ones with questionable lending practices. Most local banks are operating normally.

In fact, I tried to get a loan the other day at my bank, and it took 3 days because the loan officer was so busy (I then got the loan). They were busy because due to there quality lending practices, the are still going strong.

If you don't bail them out, the Banks that did the right thing are rewarded. If you do, the one that loaned money to anyone to make a quick buck are.

Guess which banks lobby congress ;)

 

The crisis is only starting though. The FDIC is not an infinite supply of money either (unless money gets printed to fill it up, in which case inflation increases).

I agree with your last paragraphs though. Just notice that Paulson used to be the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

 



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ManusJustus said:
Coca-Cola said:

I read that over 90% of the economist didn't want this bill to pass.

American people won today.

Apparently not, since the DOW just shit all over itself.

most economist believed it will go down no matter what.

it's better now than later. 

from the Market Ticker

  • Public opinion is running anywhere from 100:1 to 300:1 against passing this bill, according to sources on Capitol Hill. You must return home after you pass this package to ANGRY constituents with an election less than a month away. Given the massive size of this package, the fact that it rewards the guilty on Wall Street and does nothing to address the cause that anger is fully justified.
  • Non-financial private debt is $32.4 trillion dollars1 as of 2Q 2008. Household debt is $14.0 trillion. Households lost 400 billion dollars last quarter. You wish to add $700 billion more in losses (via government obligations that taxpayers must cover) this quarter; this package is insignificant against the total bad credit outstanding. Federal capacity to “bail the system out” is insufficient.
  • It will not and cannot work because the issue is trust, not money. There is lots of money (and credit) but it is being hoarded throughout the system. Consumer savings have gone from nothing to the highest rate ever in American history – in the space of a few months. Money is flying into Treasuries because of lack of trust, not lack of money. You must fix the cause of the problem, not apply band-aids.
  • Commercial paper is being cited as the “lockup” that threatens an imminent financial train wreck. The truth is that commercial paper rates for “AA” rated non-financial firms is placing at a rate half that of a year ago as the Fed Funds target has been dropped from 5.25 to 2%2. With risk having increased the rate of return offered is lower? This is where the stress is coming from; at last summer’s rates this paper would roll. You are being gamed by Paulson and Bernanke; look at the table in the reference and you will see that even for “threatened sectors” rates are not materially higher than last year.
  • If you pass this bill and the market implodes you will be held directly responsible. There are records of thousands of signatures across seven petitions faxed to you (at my expense) dating back to October of 2007 on this topic. Many experts, including Nouriel Roubini, “Mish” Shedlock, Dr. Faber, The Weiss Institute and over 160 economists have warned Congress that this proposed plan will not work. Are you prepared to face a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal and/or USA Today exposing these facts?
  • There are alternatives that will work; they all involve restoring trust and using existing market mechanisms to resolve insolvent institutions.3 While I am not particularly partial to my view on how we resolve “failed” institutions, addressing the root of the problem – lack of trust – is paramount. Three elements are involved here, they are obvious, and they must be fixed or you will FAIL.
  • We only get one more shot at this; we have spent over $1.6 trillion thus far (by some estimates; $500 billion by others) attempting the same thing over and over again and it has not worked.


ManusJustus said:
Coca-Cola said:

I read that over 90% of the economist didn't want this bill to pass.

American people won today.

Apparently not, since the DOW just shit all over itself.

Nice to see you went from supporting the bailout being rejected to not supporting it as soon as you found out the Republicans were the ones who stopped it from passing.

 



NJ5 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
NJ5 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Awesome news! I hope it's never passes. And no depression is coming, just a big recession.

The same recession that is going to happen regardless of if this bill passes or not.

Why no depression? If more and more banks go down, how will people and businesses be able to sink even more into debt in order to keep the economies going?

 

 

Because we are being doped by congress. It's bad, but not The Great Depression bad. In the great depression, 40% of all home loans defaulted. Right now we are at 4%. In the 30's we did not have FDIC, so most people lost there entire life savings. That can not happen today. Not all banks have stopped giving loans. It's only the ones with questionable lending practices. Most local banks are operating normally.

In fact, I tried to get a loan the other day at my bank, and it took 3 days because the loan officer was so busy (I then got the loan). They were busy because due to there quality lending practices, the are still going strong.

If you don't bail them out, the Banks that did the right thing are rewarded. If you do, the one that loaned money to anyone to make a quick buck are.

Guess which banks lobby congress ;)

 

The crisis is only starting though. The FDIC is not an infinite supply of money either (unless money gets printed to fill it up, in which case inflation increases).

I agree with your last paragraphs though. Just notice that Paulson used to be the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

 

 

I agree. We are fucked. I have been saying this all along. The chance to keep us out of a big recession had passed months ago. Stop screwing us over even more by trying to fix the problem. It's like trying to swim in quicksand, it only makes the problem worse.

 



Either way it seems like McCain was useless to help the thing after all.

Still I like his reponse better then Obamas which was basically he was blindly voting for it... and would review the plan if he was elected president. Shouldn't he have an opinion on the bill now. Since it was part of his job to vote on it?



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Kasz216 said:

Nice to see you went from supporting the bailout being rejected to not supporting it as soon as you found out the Republicans were the ones who stopped it from passing.

I have always been for government regulation.  If you are referring to my comment that Americans dont support the bill because they think it helps the Middle class, that is true.



Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Coca-Cola said:

I read that over 90% of the economist didn't want this bill to pass.

American people won today.

Apparently not, since the DOW just shit all over itself.

Nice to see you went from supporting the bailout being rejected to not supporting it as soon as you found out the Republicans were the ones who stopped it from passing.

 

I don't remember supporting the bailout.  Like I said, I follow the Market Ticker Denninger and he's been against it from the beginning.

I didn't even know the republicans were against it until last night - watching FOX.

If I said anything to confuse anyone, I apologize for that.

 

 



NJ5 said:

Don't worry guys, it seems the vote doesn't matter:

Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System

 

 

That was the annual budget vote. That won't help this.



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Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

did the house reject it before the markets closed or after?



                       

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kushal3337@wii said:
did the house reject it before the markets closed or after?

 

Before. It's why the market tanked.