By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Democrats Caused Housing Mess

ManusJustus said:
mesoteto said:

if the majority of people who took out the loans and such (which are the real problem) had know what they were getting into and been warned about the dangers then most of this woe could have been avoided

Theoretically, the free market would have corrected that.  However, the theory behind the free market fixing itself has been proven wrong.  What we need is government intervention.

If your doctor told you had a disease and you should take a pill, would you?  Most people dont have the ability to make a decision for themselves, so they have to trust the doctor.  To prevent the doctor from taking advantage of the patient, government regulation is required.

Same goes for loans.  People who dont understand financing have to trust their lender/financial advisor, who can easily convince them to take a certain plan.  Just like it doesnt take much for a doctor to convince you to take a presicription.  Likewise, government regulation is needed to prevent lenders/financial advisors from taking advantage of people.

And noone has to rewrite economic thought in the process, its already understood that assymentry in information is reason for government intervention.


agreed, a combination of the two would be the ideal situation limit what a bank can offer and educate the individual as to the best offer and what they should avoid

 

Around the Network
ManusJustus said:
Keep dreaming. Most Americans have a lick of sense and are capable of independent thought, so they wont be fooled into believing that the "pro-regulation Republicans" (its funny everytime I say it) didn't cause this mess.

 

 The average american is smart enough to watch that and say "Damn, the Dems say the Republicans fight regulation, but then why do I see republicans trying fix the regulatory structure, and dems attack the regulator..."

You see you are the one incapable of independent thought. Watch the video and make that statement again. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac caused the housing Crisis through their actions, the democrats clearly blocked every attempt to fix it. Please do not bring that "Smart people think this" BS. It does not make you or anyone that shares your ideological values look more better.

Yea I am dreaming. Quite sucking Obama's tit and atleast be open.

I am open to Obama and his ideas. Many of them go against economic principle, so I believe they would fail. However, If Obama could say to me that he would not f with the military, and not Socialize healthcare, and other private markets I would be willing to accept him as prez. I know that his inexperiance would not be the end of the world... I know he has advisors ( the same reason I think the Palin inexperiance is blown of proportion). What worries me most about him is his fiscal and monetary policies.

 

@Mestito

I am not trying to change peoples vote, most of the people on the boards are dead set on what they are voting for. I am posting this because it is something people are not going to get to see watch CNN or reading their precious Huffington. And yes I do agree people are stupid. And in fact I have a theory that people who are poor are more likely to not know how to handle their own finances, and therefore make bad business decsions (that in many cases is the reason they are poor, however I do realize that some were not given a fair shake in life, so I do not believe that all people are poor just becuase they are stupid). I know that statement may sound a bit cruel but if you think about it is true. There have been social experiments done where they gave a Rich mans wealth to a poor which in turn means they traded places. Within a few years the Poor Man was poor again and the rich man had gained most of his wealth back. Read the book rich dad poor dad, it explains this better than I did. But it comes down to the basic premise that poor people see money as something you spend, wealthy people see it as something you use.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

Bigjon, your argument is really hurt by the fact that McCain and the vast majority of Republicans are fundamentally opposed to regulation of financial institutions:



But in 2004 the Republicans were in control of the House, Senate and Presidency. I don't see how you can only blame the Democrats when they were powerless to do anything without the approval of the Republican Party.



bigjon said:

I am open to Obama and his ideas. Many of them go against economic principle, so I believe they would fail.

Funny, McCain is trying to copy Obama's stance on the economy.  All the sudden McCain has been a proponet of regulation when, in the past, he was far from it.

Myself, or anyone else on Earth for that matter, will make you change your mind.  But you can change your own mind, so I challenge you on the open mindeness that you claim to have.  You can start here with the bill that McCain passed and his economic advisor, Phil Gramm, wrote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act



Around the Network
ManusJustus said:
mesoteto said:

if the majority of people who took out the loans and such (which are the real problem) had know what they were getting into and been warned about the dangers then most of this woe could have been avoided

Theoretically, the free market would have corrected that.  However, the theory behind the free market fixing itself has been proven wrong.  What we need is government intervention.

If your doctor told you had a disease and you should take a pill, would you?  Most people dont have the ability to make a decision for themselves, so they have to trust the doctor.  To prevent the doctor from taking advantage of the patient, government regulation is required.

Same goes for loans.  People who dont understand financing have to trust their lender/financial advisor, who can easily convince them to take a certain plan.  Just like it doesnt take much for a doctor to convince you to take a presicription.  Likewise, government regulation is needed to prevent lenders/financial advisors from taking advantage of people.

And noone has to rewrite economic thought in the process, its already understood that assymentry in information is reason for government intervention.

 

 One problem. The free market did not cause the housing crisis. Government intervention in the free market caused the housing crisis.

To put it simply- The government pressure agencies through F & F to give loans to people who did not deserve them or could not afford them (because it makes people feel sooo good inside to give a home to a poor person). That is what started, then the free market did work, but of a bad premise that was founded by gov intervention. You see it is all supply and demand, more people were getting houses that should not have been. More demand. Housing prices rise. This is where free market took over. Speculators (many time normal people) were buying a house (or even a second) under the idea that it would make them tons of equity, which they would sell before their adjustible rate mortgage went up. Well a little while back the bubble popped and people who bought a house for profit reason were not having to pay a rate they could not afford on a house that was losing value. Then, an entire glut of houses when on the market for sales. Supply and demand... more supply house continued to lose value, and no one could buy them because of the credit cruch caused by people getting foreclosed on because they could not afford the APR. No we have reached the point where banks have so many bad mortgages that they are no longer liquid... thus the bailout plan. To give some liquidity to get people buying houses again and cause the prices to rise again. Once the prices rise again that bad paper can be sold and all wont be lost... whew...

But you see, what started the probem was the gov pushing the private sector around. If they do not... there is no rising housing cost, no speculation, no bubble no credit cruch.

This theory about rampant free market distruction has no viable basis and is set for by advocates of socialism.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

like i said in anther post BJ it boils down to this

in the system we currently have every one is out for the most they can get for themselves

until you have a system where everyone feed from each other and not off you will not have a system that can heal tself



 

ManusJustus said:
bigjon said:

I am open to Obama and his ideas. Many of them go against economic principle, so I believe they would fail.

Funny, McCain is trying to copy Obama's stance on the economy.  All the sudden McCain has been a proponet of regulation when, in the past, he was far from it.

Myself, or anyone else on Earth for that matter, will make you change your mind.  But you can change your own mind, so I challenge you on the open mindeness that you claim to have.  You can start here with the bill that McCain passed and his economic advisor, Phil Gramm, wrote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

why did you not mention the fact the The Head of the Treasury at that time (under clinton) said (last week) that Gramm-leach-bliley, etc. had NOTHING to the current mess. Did you not notice that the dems had to reach back 9 years to find anything to pin on McCain? McCain just goes back to 04-05.

Again less regulation is a good thing, more oversight is a good thing.

McCain is being political. Right now is a bad time for people to advocate dereg. (which in most industries help a whole lot)

People who have no economic background think deregulation is the problem, it is easier for McCain to "conform" than to try to explain complex economic Ideas. I written a thesis on the affects of regulation in Gov... I've done a bit of homework on this one.

 

Did you know that The banking Industry is the most regulated industry in the US economy? Just a question.

 



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

Yes finally someone knows the truth. Democrats started WW2, Cause genocide, eat babies, killed Santa. Everything thats wrong with the world is the Democrats fault.



 

Beja-Beja said:

    Yes finally someone knows the truth. Democrats started WW2, Cause genocide, eat babies, killed Santa. Everything thats wrong with the world is the Democrats fault.


   




Jesus Christ not Santa......no