thanks jackson.

"Obama is for higher government spending, keeping earmarks as they are and tax cuts for some tax raises for others that would lead to a higher national debt."

I should directly tackle what you actually said. Not true, not true, true, and not
true. He repeatedly said the tax raise would be for the top 5%. I'm pretty sure the people in the $250k + bracket aren't hurting as bad as those of us who make 10-20k a year. Really. I think they can take the blow for awhile for the sake of rest of us. Somebodies gotta take the bullet. And at least Obama isn't proposing that the majority takes the bullet. That top 5% holds a great deal of the nations wealth, I'm gonna have to look up a statistic on it but I'm pretty sure it adds up to more than what that other 95% has in total.

And if that statistic I vaguely remember is true, that should compensate for A LOT.

the "higher national debt" statement just sort of gets a "wtf" reaction from me, that doesn't make any sense. Especially if the wealthy hold the vast majority of the wealth.

Also talking about cutting the war in Iraq IS lowering government spending. By A LOT.

The earmark thing is all up in the air thanks to political spin bullshit. I'm pretty sure both candidates are for spending in some areas and less in others.

Obama is for broadening the middle class because for YEARS the middle class has been slowly been chiseled away at as the wealth goes to richest. Thats what the whole taxing the rich thing is about. Every political science class I have had has covered the increasing gap between the rich and the poor. It needs to be cut down, we are becoming unbalanced.


I think either McCain or Obama would take appropriate measures to solve the problem. I do not consider McCain an idiot (like Bush), even if I favor Obama. I just wish for more balance.

Round 1 in debates goes to Obama, poll says

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/debate.poll/index.html

Moongoddess256 said: "Obama is for higher government spending, keeping earmarks as they are and tax cuts for some tax raises for others that would lead to a higher national debt." I should directly tackle what you actually said. Not true, not true, true, and not true. He repeatedly said the tax raise would be for the top 5%. I'm pretty sure the people in the $250k + bracket aren't hurting as bad as those of us who make 10-20k a year. Really. I think they can take the blow for awhile for the sake of rest of us. Somebodies gotta take the bullet. And at least Obama isn't proposing that the majority takes the bullet. That top 5% holds a great deal of the nations wealth, I'm gonna have to look up a statistic on it but I'm pretty sure it adds up to more than what that other 95% has in total. And if that statistic I vaguely remember is true, that should compensate for A LOT. the "higher national debt" statement just sort of gets a "wtf" reaction from me, that doesn't make any sense. Especially if the wealthy hold the vast majority of the wealth. Also talking about cutting the war in Iraq IS lowering government spending. By A LOT. The earmark thing is all up in the air thanks to political spin bullshit. I'm pretty sure both candidates are for spending in some areas and less in others. Obama is for broadening the middle class because for YEARS the middle class has been slowly been chiseled away at as the wealth goes to richest. Thats what the whole taxing the rich thing is about. Every political science class I have had has covered the increasing gap between the rich and the poor. It needs to be cut down, we are becoming unbalanced. I think either McCain or Obama would take appropriate measures to solve the problem. I do not consider McCain an idiot (like Bush), even if I favor Obama. I just wish for more balance.

Eh.... You didn't tackle anything there.

As for Earmarks

There was a bill to reform Earmarks to make it less abusive.

Obama voted against that bill.

McCain also has quite extensive Middle Class taxcuts.  Better ones actually... and he plans to spend a lot less money and stop wasteful spending.

As for the Iraq war.  Obama wants to shift all the Iraq resources over to Afghanistan.... and if we do that too soon, based on an arbitrary time table instead of wheter the country is ready to stand on its own or not... we're going to end up having to go back there and extend the conflict rather then shorten it.

Obama has a lot more government programs he wants to inact... and few things he wants to cut... a simple tax hike on the rich isn't going to get him anywhere near all the money he needs for it.  He will either need to raise taxes on everybody or run a massive debt.

In fact the only thing he's really talked about cutting is the Iraq war.  Which isn't really going to be up to the next president but how Iraq progresses.

Obama responded to McCains statement regarding that bill. You watched the debate. You know.

Also. FUCK IRAQ. All we wanted was Bin Laden in the first place. Iraq is just... Vietnam. Again. I never gave a shit about "freeing" the people of Iraq. And I still don't. We are doing more damage than good by creating more war and fucking up the heads of whoever actually is still alive there. Like the elephants of Africa. All the poaching and watching their mothers being killed caused them to develop post traumatic stress and now they've been known to rape and kill Rhinos and attack cars and the like. Imagine what happens to people if that can happen to elephants? How do you think these Islamic extremists get as crazy as they do?

You're pretty blind if you think Iraq will ever be stable within the immediate future.

I hope Obama realizes that 43% of Americans don't even pay taxes... So how again is he going to cut taxes on 95%?



McCain won. I think there is a bit of the kennedy affect here. I think if someone listen to the debate on the radio they would have thought McCain killed Obama. However, Obama is easier on the eyes and that is noted because so far it is women who are giving him the edge in the debate(as far as polls go)

Remember these are overnight polls, overnight polls are usually off a little.

younger people are more likely to be less deep and go for Obama's style, younger people are more likely to be availible during the night for polling. But, I could be wrong. At worst this was a tie for mccain(for people watching it)

Moongoddess256 said: Obama responded to McCains statement regarding that bill. You watched the debate. You know. Also. FUCK IRAQ. All we wanted was Bin Laden in the first place. Iraq is just... Vietnam. Again. I never gave a shit about "freeing" the people of Iraq. And I still don't. We are doing more damage than good by creating more war and fucking up the heads of whoever actually is still alive there. Like the elephants of Africa. All the poaching and watching their mothers being killed caused them to develop post traumatic stress and now they've been known to rape and kill Rhinos and attack cars and the like. Imagine what happens to people if that can happen to elephants? How do you think these Islamic extremists get as crazy as they do? You're pretty blind if you think Iraq will ever be stable within the immediate future.

 

 It was people like you who said germany and japan would never stabilize after WW2. People like you are usually wrong.

Question. Do you like freedom? Deep thought. Do you think Iraqi people like freedom too?

No I am sure they hate it, they want Sadam back ASAP. Well, wait they HUNG him.

Say Fuck Iraq again.... Freedom is never free. Are you listening. YOUR FUCKING FREEDOM WAS BOUGHT WITH OTHER PEOPLES BLOOD!

Try thinking about that and you won't make statements like that again.

 

bigjon said: I hope Obama realizes that 43% of Americans don't even pay taxes... So how again is he going to cut taxes on 95%? McCain won. I think there is a bit of the kennedy affect here. I think if someone listen to the debate on the radio they would have thought McCain killed Obama. However, Obama is easier on the eyes and that is noted because so far it is women who are giving him the edge in the debate(as far as polls go) Remember these are overnight polls, overnight polls are usually off a little. younger people are more likely to be less deep and go for Obama's style, younger people are more likely to be availible during the night for polling. But, I could be wrong. At worst this was a tie for mccain(for people watching it)

Polls saying Obama won. Personally, I think it was a tie with Obama a bit better, but it seems American's are thinking Obama won. And the margins are decently large, so even if it is a bit off, obama at least ties or is ahead. And, Obama was just as "deep" as McCain so don't even try to pull that shit, cause that is what it is, total shit. Both had answers and there was good substance from both sides.

 

@Aimond
you are right, I was saying the overnight polls could be correct, but I was stating it is possible the overnight polls could be a bit off. Which they are known to be. But that is what the media has for now, and it gives them something to talk about. I don't blame them. I was a good debate. It was the closest thing to a real debate that I have ever seen in a presidential election.

I think Obama was better prepared, and possibly connected with people better (thus the reason people giving him a higher rating). McCain had a better debate. I watched it again, and I now think McCain won every leading question but the first. Again I only pay attention to the meat and potatoes.

Germany and Japan stabalized because we gave them a ton of money to rebuild.

They also weren't tribal societies with massive differences.

They aren't societies that put an emphasis on revenge and an eye-for-an-eye kind of mentality.

You can't give anyone freedom. One must earn freedom for their selves. It isn't freedom if someone is holding a gun to your head and telling you that you are "free"

And yes Saddam was an asshole. And yes he was a dictator. And we didn't like him much. Saddam is also long gone, and Saddam is not responsible for all of the instability in the middle east. Actually I'm quite sure the middle east has been unstable for hundreds, if not thousands of years.