But Trump is more of a celebrity than an expert on business.

I'd trust rich celebrities who support higher taxes for their own tax bracket before I'd trust rich celebrities who support lower taxes for their own tax bracket.

Anyway, both tax plans will put us trillions in debt.  There's no doubt about that.

Not definitly.  The tax analysis only take account the tax plans with the current system.  They don't include things like Obama's healthcare plan and McCain's vow to stop earmarks.

I mean stopping Earmarks saves you a good 20 Billion or so a year.

If neither changes spending, McCain's tax plan is way worse. If McCain cuts as spending as much as he claims, and if Obama raises spending as much as McCain claims, then they get closer together and Obama's could definitely be way worse, but yeah, we won't have definite numbers for any of those comparisons until it's too late.

I just don't believe anybody who says they're gonna cut spending. It doesn't seem possible to just hop into the White house and say "Okay, we're done, everybody go home." So the way I see it, my choice is between tax and spend or cut and spend.

This is what NEEDS to happen. Taxes need to be hiked across the board, we need to start lower our presence in Iraq, we need to kill the pork barrel spending, and cut down on the budget across the board. The National Debt is KILLING us, and we need to get a surplus, and get one now. American's are going to have to pay for Washington's indesgression... Get reid of the Debt asap or the economy will never recover.

I agree with that.  But the problem is that I dont think McCain, Obama, or anybody for that will do a good job of debt control.  They get in there for 4 to 8 years and would rather look good by spending and putting their name on programs than being responsible but having less photo oppourtunities.

 The thing is, I do not see McCain running in 2012 even if he wins. He would be 76, and that would put him at 80 when he finally finishes.

So I think McCain will be one and done, and he will know it. I think he is going to not really give a crap about re-election in 2012. Obama on the other hand is a sure bet to run in 2012 if he wins, things will remain very political. He will not do something like I suggested because it would be political suicide.

I think McCain should come out and say, look people. I am not going to run in 2012. Just give me 4 years to shake up f'en washinton and I will die knowing I served my country best. He says that... wow... That is what we need. Someone who is not going to give a fack about Winning elections or keeping the party happy( and we know McCain has not cared too much about the latter in the past).

just my ranting : ).

With everything economically that's happened in the last two years, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of a surplus coming any time soon. We're about to spend ~$500 billion on the most extensive bailout the Fed has ever done, and with that, plus the Iraq "war", the word "surplus" seems like a distant fairytale.

No one will kill pork barrel spending. Do you think something that's been going on for 200+ years will just be ended on the whim of a new president? We need to get realistic. That's not to say your ideas aren't good ones, they're just a little too ambitious at this stage of the game.

Yes you can't kill pork barrel spending all together, but mccain has said he will veto all pork barrel... now that does not mean the house will not get a 2/3 vote and override the veto... as far as raising taxes? It would not go over well... That is why it would have to be someone with balls to do it, Mccain seems to be rather ballsy (picking SP for VP was pretty ballsy if you ask me). yea, things would suck for a while, with alot of programs getting shut down that we are used to, but in the long run it would be the best thing possible.

Nah Palin was a bailout.

His campaign wanted... i forget his name, some govonor from like... Minesota.

McCain wanted Joe Liberman

They compromised by picking Palin, who despite what Rubang things wasn't just picked out of nowhere... she was being championed by the Old Conservatives in the Party like Newt Gingrich.

Really it was a shot at the Neo-Cons while stopping the cons from going crazy.

Historically, even when presidents aren't concerned with future elections, that doesn't change the way they run things.  Legacy is the key here, the same incentive that Bush and Clinton had (have) in their last terms.  If Bush isn't worried about getting re-elected then why doesn't he bother to address America's debt?  Because he is worried about his legacy.