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Forums - General - PoliCHARTZ - Thread of U.S. Politics & the Presidential Election

Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.


I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

I didn't watch the video now and haven't seen it in months, but isn't O'Reilly's argument basically saying immigrants are dangerous due solely to their illegality, accusing all illegal aliens of thoughtcrime?



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The Ghost of RubangB said:
Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.


I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

I didn't watch the video now and haven't seen it in months, but isn't O'Reilly's argument basically saying immigrants are dangerous due solely to their illegality, accusing all illegal aliens of thoughtcrime?

Pretty much.  Though at least its somewhat rational compared to some of the crap I have heard him string together.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.
I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

Wasn't Geraldo's point that it's wrong to take one drunk driving fatality that happened to be committed by an illegal alien and turn it into a huge fearmongering attack?

And I haven't researched the specific incident but apparently from what they said he hadn't been deported because they don't investigate people who aren't accused of felonies or misdemeanors involving moral turpitude.  Geraldo is claiming no one broke the law by not deporting him and I hear he's a lawyer (not that that is conclusive). 

And I think it's unlikely that Law & Order would take that tack.  Usually they only use illegality as leverage to get the illegals to cooperate or some such thing.

No. I mean they would claim the people who could of deported him were complcit for not deporting him when they knew he had a history of drunk driving which means that he was a public danger.

Since it was in there power to deport him... when he had a vast history of drunk driving, they're complicit because they could of stopped the tradgedy from happening legally within there power.

Either way... I don't see why it's fearmongering, or just wrong when you say "This person was here illegally this tradgedy wouldn't of happened if he wasn't here."

Cause, it's basically true... and it is an issue when there are people who are committing crimes and dangers to the community who aren't being deported.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.


I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

I didn't watch the video now and haven't seen it in months, but isn't O'Reilly's argument basically saying immigrants are dangerous due solely to their illegality, accusing all illegal aliens of thoughtcrime?

Not that i saw.  His arguement seemed to be that he wasn't supposed to be in the country... and if he wasn't in the country he wouldn't of been drunk driving... and that the state knew he was a risk since he's gotten DUIs before.

 



Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.
I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

Wasn't Geraldo's point that it's wrong to take one drunk driving fatality that happened to be committed by an illegal alien and turn it into a huge fearmongering attack?

And I haven't researched the specific incident but apparently from what they said he hadn't been deported because they don't investigate people who aren't accused of felonies or misdemeanors involving moral turpitude.  Geraldo is claiming no one broke the law by not deporting him and I hear he's a lawyer (not that that is conclusive). 

And I think it's unlikely that Law & Order would take that tack.  Usually they only use illegality as leverage to get the illegals to cooperate or some such thing.

No. I mean they would claim the people who could of deported him were complcit for not deporting him when they knew he had a history of drunk driving which means that he was a public danger.

Since it was in there power to deport him... when he had a vast history of drunk driving, they're complicit because they could of stopped the tradgedy from happening legally within there power.

Either way... I don't see why it's fearmongering, or just wrong when you say "This person was here illegally this tradgedy wouldn't of happened if he wasn't here."

Cause, it's basically true... and it is an issue when there are people who are committing crimes and dangers to the community who aren't being deported.

But the argument that there is a public danger doesn't hold up to the (apparent) fact that illegal immigrants are LESS criminally-inclined than the general population [edit:  other than in the area of immigration obviously].  Why should homicide or vice or gang-oriented law enforcement spend special effort going after illegals in particular if they are LESS likely to be doing those crimes? 

And to continue the L&O references, we constantly see the detectives there turning a blind eye to "minor" crimes like prostitution and drug possession in order to facilitate cooperation.  Total zero tolerance crackdown from all corners of law enforcement on all crime may well be counterproductive even discounting the additional strain placed on the courts/jails. 

If the system failed here it was because they didn't put a stop to this guy's drunken dangerous behavior -- just like dozens of other similar cases I have heard of who weren't illegal immigrants -- before it ended in a fatality.  Not because they didn't deport every Mexican they could lay hands on.



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halogamer1989 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
Man, this is a heated battle between Geraldo and O'Reiley:

It's rare that Bill O'Reily is the one who sounds like the more resonable waiting for his turn to speak guy.  (well until he loses his temper.)

I actually agree with Bill O'Reily on that one.

 

O'Reilly wins hands down on this issue.

 

And using immigration as a wedge issue has really benefited one of the two major political parties. I wonder which one and I wonder why?



Something I was thinking about before:

No matter how good Obama and his administration are, things aren't going to be pretty in the next few years. We will probably see the worst economic crisis most living people have seen. Millions unemployed, countries, states and cities running out of funds and requiring a bailout, etc.

Of course (and fortunately for Obama), the crisis is starting before he actually gets into office, but the worst part will surely happen while he's in office. Unless he really screws up some aspects of the crisis, smart people know that he's not to blame, but many others will (consciously or not) blame him.

Obama will need a lot of hard work, and perhaps a lot of luck too to be able serve a second term. Racists and extremists will be having a field day trying to put the blame on him.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

The Ghost of RubangB said:
Please stop posting Ann Coulter videos. This is really putting a damper on my zomg-Obama-won-euphoria.

 

 

Why, that is a really funny video.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Oh I've seen that video before. The first comment by Geraldo wins the whole argument. O'Reilly ignores crimes that don't fit his "culture war" agenda.
I dunno.

I mean if this was Law and Order Jack McCoy would totally be trying the people who didn't deport that guy as being culpable for the deaths.

They're lucky the family didn't sue the state.

Wasn't Geraldo's point that it's wrong to take one drunk driving fatality that happened to be committed by an illegal alien and turn it into a huge fearmongering attack?

And I haven't researched the specific incident but apparently from what they said he hadn't been deported because they don't investigate people who aren't accused of felonies or misdemeanors involving moral turpitude.  Geraldo is claiming no one broke the law by not deporting him and I hear he's a lawyer (not that that is conclusive). 

And I think it's unlikely that Law & Order would take that tack.  Usually they only use illegality as leverage to get the illegals to cooperate or some such thing.

No. I mean they would claim the people who could of deported him were complcit for not deporting him when they knew he had a history of drunk driving which means that he was a public danger.

Since it was in there power to deport him... when he had a vast history of drunk driving, they're complicit because they could of stopped the tradgedy from happening legally within there power.

Either way... I don't see why it's fearmongering, or just wrong when you say "This person was here illegally this tradgedy wouldn't of happened if he wasn't here."

Cause, it's basically true... and it is an issue when there are people who are committing crimes and dangers to the community who aren't being deported.

But the argument that there is a public danger doesn't hold up to the (apparent) fact that illegal immigrants are LESS criminally-inclined than the general population [edit:  other than in the area of immigration obviously].  Why should homicide or vice or gang-oriented law enforcement spend special effort going after illegals in particular if they are LESS likely to be doing those crimes? 

And to continue the L&O references, we constantly see the detectives there turning a blind eye to "minor" crimes like prostitution and drug possession in order to facilitate cooperation.  Total zero tolerance crackdown from all corners of law enforcement on all crime may well be counterproductive even discounting the additional strain placed on the courts/jails. 

If the system failed here it was because they didn't put a stop to this guy's drunken dangerous behavior -- just like dozens of other similar cases I have heard of who weren't illegal immigrants -- before it ended in a fatality.  Not because they didn't deport every Mexican they could lay hands on.

Somone who was arrested 4 times for drunk driving is less criminally inclined then normal people without DUIs?  That's your argument?

They do what they can to stop people with DUIs within the framework of the law.  With illegal immigrants they can do more and they didn't.

 



fkusumot said:
halogamer1989 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
Man, this is a heated battle between Geraldo and O'Reiley:

It's rare that Bill O'Reily is the one who sounds like the more resonable waiting for his turn to speak guy.  (well until he loses his temper.)

I actually agree with Bill O'Reily on that one.

 

O'Reilly wins hands down on this issue.

 

And using immigration as a wedge issue has really benefited one of the two major political parties. I wonder which one and I wonder why?

The Democrats because hispanics are the largest growing group in the nation and even hispanics tend to side with illegal ones?

The Democrats get way more out of being lax on it then the republicans do for wanting to enforce the laws.