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Forums - General - Barack and the radical group ACORN. Guilt by association?

Barack Obama routinely touts his experience as a community organizer in Chicago as one reason why he is ready for the presidency. What most people don't know? He was a community organizer and did work for what is viewed to be an extreme left wing group, ACORN. ACORN sounds good at heart, help low income families, work against predatory lending, etc, all ideas I agree with, however, their tactics and viewpoints are at times far out of the mainstream. In fact, they can sometimes border on extreme.

From Code Pink-like interruptions of closed door meetings, to federal indctments for voter fraud, to intimidation of politicians and their families, ACORN is not the organization to work with if you want to appeal to mainstream America, but it is one organization Barack Obama spent time working with as a 'community organizer' in Chicago.

In addition to working with ACORN, Obama's campaign has paid 800,000 to the organazation under a different name, CSI (Citizens Services Inc) for 'Get out the vote' work. Perhaps the fact that Obama is paying an organization that has had several indictments for voter fraud to 'Get out the vote' might raise some eyebrows in mainstream America, if the media ever reports this en masse, that is.

Now Obama didn't engage in any of these illicit activities himself, nor do I believe he holds to all the beliefs of the people he has associated with, but right or wrong, guilt by association is a very real problem in the public mind. The very fact that he was willing to be associated with ACORN, even though it has such a history, just adds to the list of far left wing friends that Barack Obama has associated with and may raise some eyebrows. From ACORN, to the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, to serving alonside and associating with admitted Pentagon bomber Bill Ayers (who said he didn't regret setting the bombs and thought he 'didn't do enough'), Obama has some skeletons in the closet that may come back to haunt him, especially as America begins to scrutinize in more depth the company he kept. Mainstream America gets uncomfortable when a candidate associates himself so closely with individuals that are viewed as extremists. In the long run, this may be more of an issue than Sarah Palin's church (Obama has church problems of his own), or the fact that McCain is a Republican. We'll just have to see if these skeletons get aired out, or if the media lets them stay in the closet.

-Written by Timmah!

Sources:

From Wikipedia:

False registrations by employees

In some locations, ACORN employees have submitted false voter registration forms rather than obtaining registrations from actual eligible voters.

  • In Ohio in 2004, four ACORN employees were indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms.[16][17]
  • In January 2005 two Colorado ACORN workers were sentenced to community service for submitting false voter registrations.[18] ACORN's regional director said, "we find it abhorrent and do everything we can to prevent it from happening."[19]
  • On November 1, 2006, four part time ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City, Missouri for voter registration fraud, after being caught, fired, and turned in by ACORN. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.[20] ACORN said in a press release that it is in large part responsible in these individuals being caught, and has cooperated and publicly supported efforts to look into the validity of the allegations.[21]
  • ACORN was investigated in 2006 for submitting false voter registrations in St. Louis, Missouri. 1,492 fraudulent voter registrations were identified.[citation needed]
  • In 2007, five Washington state ACORN workers were sentenced to jail time.[22] ACORN agreed to pay King County $25 000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again. According to King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg, the misconduct was done "as an easy way to get paid [by ACORN], not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections."[23][24]


Obama's Association with ACORN, Source 1, source 2

Obama's payment to ACORN, Source 1, Source 2

Obama's association with Bill Ayers: Source 1, Source 2

Ayer's comments in the NY Times, from Wikipedia:

"Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since the year 2000 stems from an interview he gave to the New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.[17] The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again" as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."[12] Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations"

EDIT: I want to point out, I am not suggesting that Obama holds to the beliefs of Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, or some chapters of the group ACORN, nor am I suggesting that the entire organization of ACORN is extreme. I am merely giving my assessment of what this may do to the public perception of Barack Obama.



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I know very little about Illinois/Chicago politics ... From the little I know about it, it is farily pollitically corrupt

If it lives up to its reputation, I doubt anyone would be a successful politician in Chicago without getting their hands (somewhat) dirty; but I wouldn't hold it against someone until you had direct proof of wrongdoing.



Republicans have never committed voter fraud, ever.

They certainly don't promote laws which prevent segments of the population, such as felons, from voting either.  They have always embraced letting minorities vote too.

The Bush Administration also didn't abuse its power over the Criminal Justice System to persecute voters (particularly minorities) for voter fraud. Karl Rove in no way directly encouraged this practice.

Republicans have never gone out and scared minority groups into not voting before an election. Never, ever.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

The political mud slinging in national campaigns is always so boring. This doesn't even strike me as bad quite honestly. I guess it is a side effect of Louisiana (and more spcifically New Orleans) politics being so unbelievably ruthless. There was once a TV ad that ran for weeks that all but stated one candidate wanted 3rd graders to have sex with each other. We elected that guy I am pretty sure.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

akuma587 said:

Republicans have never committed voter fraud, ever.

They certainly don't promote laws which prevent segments of the population, such as felons, from voting either. They have always embraced letting minorities vote too.

The Bush Administration also didn't abuse its power over the Criminal Justice System to persecute voters (particularly minorities) for voter fraud. Karl Rove in no way directly encouraged this practice.

Republicans have never gone out and scared minority groups into not voting before an election. Never, ever.

 

Sorry my friend but Barrack was always advocating for change, for being an outsider, someone different, someone not corrupted by Washington politics a selfmade man that does know povert and injustice.

And saying that Republicans do that as well is not the best line of defence, of course they do, Politics has always been about abuse of power and corruption. But Democrats try to present themselves as different, better.

 

And there was the Rezko scandal.



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Lolcislaw said:

 

Sorry my friend but Barrack was always advocating for change, for being an outsider, someone different, someone not corrupted by Washington politics a selfmade man that does know povert and injustice.

And saying that Republicans do that as well is not the best line of defence, of course they do, Politics has always been about abuse of power and corruption. But Democrats try to present themselves as different, better.

 

And there was the Rezko scandal.

Jack Abramoff scandal?  McCain isn't clean either.  Both handled the scandals pretty well to their benefit.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Wow we are really trying to nitpick right now. Seriously this is really getting borderline.

Now I'm not denying that Obama is a radical because he is. With all the ties to other things eh does have radical tendencies. Not to mention the man is a socialist. I know people don't like to hear that word because they associate it with stereotypes but his policies are far enough left to classify him as that. This is why I personally can't come to like Obama because I'm the opposite side radical: libertarian. He wants more government control and I want less.

But for things like this we are really going deep. I mean come on he may be tied to things but that doesn't mean he necessarily agrees with that. It's good to get background but make sure not to show bias when doing that. Association doesn't necessarily mean agreement it just poses question ability. Such as the ties with Rev White and other things like that. Personally I think he might have some radical sides sort of like this but you'll never find out if true until he has absolute power.



akuma587 said:

Republicans have never committed voter fraud, ever.

They certainly don't promote laws which prevent segments of the population, such as felons, from voting either.  They have always embraced letting minorities vote too.

The Bush Administration also didn't abuse its power over the Criminal Justice System to persecute voters (particularly minorities) for voter fraud. Karl Rove in no way directly encouraged this practice.

Republicans have never gone out and scared minority groups into not voting before an election. Never, ever.

Akuma, this post is kind of rediculous, and completely misses the point of my OP.

Of course republicans have commited voter fraud, and if John McCain was directly associated with a group that had a history of federal investigations and convictions regarding voter fraud, it would be just as big an issue. That's not the point of my post.

The fact that felons can't vote really has nothing to do with this, not sure why you even wrote that.

Republicans don't have any problem with minorities voting and don't try to scare them out of voting, however, Democrats DO try to scare minorities INTO voting, but that's a different topic.

I'm not saying that no republican has ever been involved in voter fraud, obviously there's corruption on both sides. My point is that Obama being directly involved with a group that has been investigated and had members convicted of voter fraud, and PAID THEM $800,000 to help him get the vote out is not going to sit well with general public. I'm not IN ANY WAY suggesting that Obama was part of, or took part in these practices, nor am I trying to sling mud at him as a person. I was simply analyzing what those facts might do to the public perception of Obama, who was portrayed to be so clean at the onset of this election.

You sound like you just regressed somewhat. Spouting out the old "well, your people have done bad stuff too" line is not really even debating my original point. I've enjoyed your well reasoned arguments up until this post. Spouting off your own list of accusations (of the Bush administration, that wasn't even mentioned in my writeup) without even providing foundation was not exactly your standard, well thought out argument. Please re-read my article, as it was not a smear, but a question about what these facts will do to public perception of a candidate.



its already well known that obama is friends with terrorists, criminals and hatemongers.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

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Reminds me of the Republican/Democrats vote on Wednesday flyers, you'd have to be an idiot to blame one side.