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Forums - Gaming - Has any console ever made a big comeback from a bad launch?

Snes but only because it was a perfect red ocean competition.
In certain sense PS3 is the Snes while Xbox360 is the Genesis however during the 16bit there wasn't a disruptive system like the Wii also PS3/360 have overshotting the market.



 “In the entertainment business, there are only heaven and hell, and nothing in between and as soon as our customers bore of our products, we will crash.”  Hiroshi Yamauchi

TAG:  Like a Yamauchi pimp slap delivered by Il Maelstrom; serving it up with style.

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The original NES had a rocky start in Japan and was overhauled and turned into a success. But then, it had almost no competition at the time it was launched.


Some of you guys are confusing "slow starts" with "bad starts." The DS and Genesis both started out slow and quickly picked up speed. The PS3 started out rocky. And no, with history as a guide, consoles never recover from rocky starts. The Saturn had a bad start, and never recovered, as did the Atari Jaguar.


Here's why:

First off, the first year (give or take) of a console's life is "do or die" time. Third party companies will make their choices on who to support over the new generation. It costs a lot of money to switch gears later on--especially now when you factor in that games can take up to 3 years now (almost as an average) to make.

Secondly, "you never get a second chance to make a first impression." The PS3 launched with embarassing sales, lackluster titles, too many different SKU's and price points released too close together, too many high profile games failing to meet expectations, lost exclusives (Assassin's Creed, GTA4), and for all the egomania from Sony (another black mark), the PS3 failed to show off any reason that it was truly better and more powerful than the rival Xbox360. Another thing that hurt the PS3 was the almost immediate failure of the SIXAXIS motion controller.

The first year the PS3 was out, things were so bad that an article surfaced at GameSpot.com which revealed Sony "pleading" with third party devs not to abandon the system. Another GameSpot article (from late summer 2007) revealed that Capcom, Sega, Namco-Bandai, and Square-Enix were all yanking various amounts of PS3 support to focus more on the surprise hits Wii and DS.


Sony's sales are up this year over last, but when you look at the numbers, their increase happens to coincide with Blu-Ray's win over HD-DVD--not because Sony is doing anything better. Multiplatform games still sell better on the Xbox360.



Now,


The PS3's sales are up over last year, and it finally got it's killer app (MGS4) out, but only after other intended killer apps (Lair, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, and Haze) all failed the system in one way or another. It still has the fewest exclusive titles of the three major consoles, and for HD development, the Xbox360 is still pretty much the first choice with the PS3 getting ports. And the PS3's current level of success is phenominal when you consider just how many black marks it had against it that first year.

Currently, the sales of the PS3 only barely top the Xbox360, and with price cuts of potentially all X360 models coming just in time for the holiday rush, MS could temporarily reverse this current sales trend, if for nothing more than a 2-4 month period around the holidays. Sales increases do happen with price cuts, but typically only last for a month or two. Since this latest X360 drop is coming near the holidays, it could last through to January.


The major point is that the Xbox360's lead may be just enough to prevent the PS3 from ever actually overtaking it. While the PS3 has outsold it for most of 2008, it hasn't outsold it by enough of a margin to show any real threatening growth. And next year, sales will most likely be much lower simply because that's how it goes the longer a system is out (with the bizarre exceptions of the DS and PS2 which seemed to be able to maintain substantial steam for amazing periods of time). Meanwhile, Sony has claimed that it will not drop the price of the PS3 in the near future because "they can't afford it."


The PS3 COULD potentially topple the Xbox360 by the end of this generation--I won't say it's impossible, but I don't think it will happen. Last time, the Xbox and GameCube finished at 24 and 21 million respectively. I think that the difference between Xbox360 and PS3 sales at the end may be closer to each other than that (a difference of 3 million), but closer overall to 30-35 million since I believe this generation will last 1-3 years longer than the average length of the previous generation, which was about 5.5-6 years long depending on when you measure.


As for market dominance, it's pretty much entirely impossible, and various reasons continue to pop up which will ultimately prevent the PS3 from ever taking over. For one, it's still too costly for most people to consider it. It will never appeal to the Blue Ocean crowd, however it will likely appeal to the HD crowd (which is likely a lot smaller than the Blue Ocean folks). For gamers, it will likely finish this generation with overall the fewest exclusives and so far, offers the fewest downloadable games by a long-shot (ironically, the harddrive-less, barely online Wii has the most downloadable games by a wide margin). Not only did it lose exclusive control over Assassin's Creed and Grand Theft Auto IV, but also three major franchise sequels with Final Fantasy XIII going multiplatform and Monster Hunter 3 jumping ship to the Wii and a long time back, the PS3 was rejected for the DS as the exclusive home of Dragon Quest IX.


Now, part of the reason the PS3 was able to pick up steam at all was due to Blu-Rays victory, but also no doubt due to the fact that the Xbox360 had persistant RROD issues for far longer than MS should have allowed.

The end matter will be the fact that the PS3 will have the fewest exclusives and throughout it's lifecycle. The Wii will have the most simply because, with less power under it's hood, three games can be made for it in the time it takes to craft one for the PS3--and since the Wii's sales are literally twice that of the PS3, it makes more sense for developers financially. Sony themselves have killed several 1st & 2nd party titles already, not the least of which was Heavenly Sword 2. Currently, things look okay for the PS3, but only a year ago, much support was dropped. What we're seeing now are ports of Xbox360 games and titles that studios chose to finish up before potentially dropping the console. I'm not saying it'll happen, but it's entirely possible that the PS3 could end up seeing an uncomfortable drought in new titles, multi-platform and exclusive, toward the end of it's life. Just like the N64 and the ill-fated Saturn. Developers finished their games, and then gradually dropped the system to work on the more successful platform of the time: The Playstation.


Also, each generation (aside from the 16-bit days) seems to have one system that, towards the end, has the vast majority of 3rd party support while the competing systems gradually lose it. This time, that will most likely be the Wii. Some of us may think that it's skewed too much to the casuals right now, but in a year or two, it will begin getting crowded with hardcore titles--many of which we know about already. Why? Because that's where the sales numbers are. Even the most hardcore gamers will likely begin moving to toward the Wii by late 2009, just as many early GC and Xbox adopters moved to the PS2, and just as many early N64 and Saturn adopters moved to the PS1--just as I did back then.



celine said:
Snes but only because it was a perfect red ocean competition.
In certain sense PS3 is the Snes while Xbox360 is the Genesis however during the 16bit there wasn't a disruptive system like the Wii also PS3/360 have overshotting the market.

 

 

The SNES didn't have a bad start.  It actually had a very good start--it's just that it came out 2 years after it's main competition, the Genesis/Mega Drive.  The only thing is that Sega had managed to snatch up a lot of the buyers befroe the SNES came out.  At that time, Sega's headstart was a major factor in their success. 

Unfortunately, it rather led them to believe that's what they needed to do over the next two generations, and it backfired terribly with the Saturn.

The SNES broke from the starting line at a pretty good clip.



The SNES in North America took a very long time to catch up to the Genesis, mostly due to a late start.
The NES sold poorly early on, but a lot of that had to do with retailers not wanting to take a chance on it, and a much smaller games market overall.
The PS1 didn't sell great the first year or so, but still led for the whole generation.




Launches are not a good indication of a system's success. The PSP had a better launch than the DS. The DS is in the lead now. The Dreamcast had a great launch, while the PS2 had almost no games in Japan (The Matrix DVD was the best seller), and had a crippling shortage in the US launch.

It's the first 18 months that give the best indication.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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SamuelRSmith said:
FishyJoe said:
The DS didn't do all that great the first year. But the sales picked up a lot after the second holiday season. Much moreso than the PS3 has.

 

 Now, I'm probably going to be flamed to shit for being wrong here, as I wasn't into video game stats and such at this time. But am I correct in saying that the PSP had a better launch experience than the DS, like, for the first couple of months?

comparative to now, they were much closer in weekly sales.... but the DS did start faster than PSP.

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=DS&reg1=All&cons2=PSP&reg2=All&cons3=Wii&reg3=All&weeks=156


LordTheNightKnight said:
Launches are not a good indication of a system's success. The PSP had a better launch than the DS. The DS is in the lead now. The Dreamcast had a great launch, while the PS2 had almost no games in Japan (The Matrix DVD was the best seller), and had a crippling shortage in the US launch.

It's the first 18 months that give

--------
That goes for you too.... PSP did not launch better than the DS.



ikilledkenny said:
The SNES in North America took a very long time to catch up to the Genesis, mostly due to a late start.
The NES sold poorly early on, but a lot of that had to do with retailers not wanting to take a chance on it, and a much smaller games market overall.
The PS1 didn't sell great the first year or so, but still led for the whole generation.

 

 The PS1 actually had a magnificent start.  The Saturn came out roughly 4-5 months before it and amassed sales of 400,000 in that time.  The PS1 sold 500,000 it's first week. 

Again, the SNES starting later doesn't mean it had a bad start.  Just a later start.  A bad start is rocky sales, a ruined image, pricing problems, lackluster games, consumer disinterest, etc.  The SNES had great games, great sales, a popular image, and high consumer interest.  The SNES started out as an immediate threat to the Genesis.



Resident_Hazard said:
celine said:
Snes but only because it was a perfect red ocean competition.
In certain sense PS3 is the Snes while Xbox360 is the Genesis however during the 16bit there wasn't a disruptive system like the Wii also PS3/360 have overshotting the market.

 

 

The SNES didn't have a bad start.  It actually had a very good start--it's just that it came out 2 years after it's main competition, the Genesis/Mega Drive.  The only thing is that Sega had managed to snatch up a lot of the buyers befroe the SNES came out.  At that time, Sega's headstart was a major factor in their success. 

Unfortunately, it rather led them to believe that's what they needed to do over the next two generations, and it backfired terribly with the Saturn.

The SNES broke from the starting line at a pretty good clip.

You are right , I dind't read carefully the OP. 

Basically the asnwer is: the vg industry is a momentum based one.

 



 “In the entertainment business, there are only heaven and hell, and nothing in between and as soon as our customers bore of our products, we will crash.”  Hiroshi Yamauchi

TAG:  Like a Yamauchi pimp slap delivered by Il Maelstrom; serving it up with style.

@ resident_hazard: your previous post was too long to quote, but that was one of the more well thought out post I've read on here since I've join. Someone would have to dig deep to find bias in it.



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

TWRoO said:
SamuelRSmith said:
FishyJoe said:
The DS didn't do all that great the first year. But the sales picked up a lot after the second holiday season. Much moreso than the PS3 has.

 

 Now, I'm probably going to be flamed to shit for being wrong here, as I wasn't into video game stats and such at this time. But am I correct in saying that the PSP had a better launch experience than the DS, like, for the first couple of months?

comparative to now, they were much closer in weekly sales.... but the DS did start faster than PSP.

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=DS&reg1=All&cons2=PSP&reg2=All&cons3=Wii&reg3=All&weeks=156


LordTheNightKnight said:
Launches are not a good indication of a system's success. The PSP had a better launch than the DS. The DS is in the lead now. The Dreamcast had a great launch, while the PS2 had almost no games in Japan (The Matrix DVD was the best seller), and had a crippling shortage in the US launch.

It's the first 18 months that give

--------
That goes for you too.... PSP did not launch better than the DS.

 

I didn't just mean raw numbers. Games count too, and the PSP was praised for its launch lineup.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs