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Forums - General - Iraq War is a "task that is from god" - Guess who?

bigjon on 03 September 2008
steven787 said:
bigjon said:
Thats the ticket attack her religious beliefs...

Most Christians believe in something known as the soveriegnty of God. They believe that God is in control, and everything that heads onto your path came from God, or he allowed it.

Let me ask, what do you believe in? What controls what? Fate? destiny? You believe in something. Do you want people to trash what you believe.

 

I believe using God, in New Testament terms, this is not correct.

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)

I don't think Jesus would approve of War in his name.

Do you?


War is an instrument of the state, the state is man-made.  Placing divine right onto the state is stupid and dangerous.

"Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. 'Teacher,' they said, 'we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?' But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, 'You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.' They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, 'Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?' 'Caesar's,' they replied. Then he said to them, 'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.' When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away."(Matthew 22:15)

(Edit: I'm not Christian.)

 

 Are you a pacifist?

Also, I agree war is not good. But It is needed to maintain freedom, but it can be abused. Example WW2 was NEEDED. Lest Hitler (there he is again) be allowed to rule the WORLD!!!

As far as it coming from God? I personally believe God gives man a level of free will and choice to do what he pleases. That is why there is evil in the world. The evil comes from man not God, so anything evil is not FROM God but allowed by God. War is neccessary in some cases to combat the evil that men create so God allows it to happen.

In old testaments there were cases where God used war to punish Israel and other nations. So I think in cases God will use far to punish evil. I believe this is where Sarah Palin is coming from. She believes God is using America to punish, Sadam Hussien esque tyrants and terrorist.

An extreme view (I do not agree with) That the middle east is being punished for their stand against Israel. Seeing that Israel was Gods chosen people.



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steven787 on 03 September 2008
bigjon said:

 

 Are you a pacifist?

Also, I agree war is not good. But It is needed to maintain freedom, but it can be abused. Example WW2 was NEEDED. Lest Hitler (there he is again) be allowed to rule the WORLD!!!

As far as it coming from God? I personally believe God gives man a level of free will and choice to do what he pleases. That is why there is evil in the world. The evil comes from man not God, so anything evil is not FROM God but allowed by God. War is neccessary in some cases to combat the evil that men create so God allows it to happen.

In old testaments there were cases where God used war to punish Israel and other nations. So I think in cases God will use far to punish evil. I believe this is where Sarah Palin is coming from. She believes God is using America to punish, Sadam Hussien esque tyrants and terrorist.

An extreme view (I do not agree with) That the middle east is being punished for their stand against Israel. Seeing that Israel was Gods chosen people.

 

Yes, they are her beliefs.

They are dangerous.  I will not sit by and see the foundation of Western Civilization crumble anymore than it already has.

Separation of Church and State is a large part of the prosperiety of the west for the past several hundred years.

Normative Jurisprudence, Separation of Church and State, Division in government, and a definition of the governments role to defend the "Life, Liberty, and Property" of it's citizens are the most important principles that voters have to defend, in order to defend the democratic republics.

If she really believes this, it is fine to believe anything you want.  But that doesn't mean we should elect somebody who honestly believes they are sending off people to die or kill as an order from God.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

MrBubbles on 03 September 2008
akuma587 said:
I am a Christian, but I hate what the Evangelicals have done to this country. I always find myself siding with the atheists and the agnostics because they are more often than not the ones who respect other people's opinions.

 

guess you havent met many atheists?



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akuma587 on 03 September 2008
MrBubbles said:
akuma587 said:
I am a Christian, but I hate what the Evangelicals have done to this country. I always find myself siding with the atheists and the agnostics because they are more often than not the ones who respect other people's opinions.

 

guess you havent met many atheists?

At the ballot box is what I mean more specifically.  Yes, you are right, there are atheists who disrespect the values of others.  But if they vote Democratic they are voting for the party that tolerates different views on sexuality, religion, etc.  And that makes a bigger difference in the long run, IMO.

 



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Galaki on 03 September 2008

I think she forgot to mention the virgins when you die...



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Coca-Cola on 03 September 2008
akuma587 said:
I am a Christian, but I hate what the Evangelicals have done to this country. I always find myself siding with the atheists and the agnostics because they are more often than not the ones who respect other people's opinions.

 

I am a Christian too, and I disagree with you 100%

I understand some Christians are too stiff-necked, but imo you are not correct.



Coca-Cola on 03 September 2008

Liberals are scared for some reason.
If she is not a good candidate, then fine, she might not have been a good selection for mcCain, but I don't know why liberals so scared.
It's like Clarence thomas thing. I think liberals should have been scared then, but not for this.



steven787 on 03 September 2008
Coca-Cola said:
Liberals are scared for some reason.
If she is not a good candidate, then fine, she might not have been a good selection for mcCain, but I don't know why liberals so scared.
It's like Clarence thomas thing. I think liberals should have been scared then, but not for this.

I know you're talking about Democrat-liberals, but I just want to say, you are right:

As a classical liberal/moderate libertarian and I am scared by her.

 

She's dangerous.  Hearing a potential president say that a war is a "task that is from God" is scary.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Jackson50 on 03 September 2008
steven787 said:
bigjon said:
 

 

 Are you a pacifist?

Also, I agree war is not good. But It is needed to maintain freedom, but it can be abused. Example WW2 was NEEDED. Lest Hitler (there he is again) be allowed to rule the WORLD!!!

As far as it coming from God? I personally believe God gives man a level of free will and choice to do what he pleases. That is why there is evil in the world. The evil comes from man not God, so anything evil is not FROM God but allowed by God. War is neccessary in some cases to combat the evil that men create so God allows it to happen.

In old testaments there were cases where God used war to punish Israel and other nations. So I think in cases God will use far to punish evil. I believe this is where Sarah Palin is coming from. She believes God is using America to punish, Sadam Hussien esque tyrants and terrorist.

An extreme view (I do not agree with) That the middle east is being punished for their stand against Israel. Seeing that Israel was Gods chosen people.

 

Yes, they are her beliefs.

They are dangerous.  I will not sit by and see the foundation of Western Civilization crumble anymore than it already has.

Separation of Church and State is a large part of the prosperiety of the west for the past several hundred years.

Normative Jurisprudence, Separation of Church and State, Division in government, and a definition of the governments role to defend the "Life, Liberty, and Property" of it's citizens are the most important principles that voters have to defend, in order to defend the democratic republics.

If she really believes this, it is fine to believe anything you want.  But that doesn't mean we should elect somebody who honestly believes they are sending off people to die or kill as an order from God.

Whilst I agree separation of church and state is positive, sometimes it can be a negative. There is a difference between hostile and positive separation of church and state. A hostile separation of church and state often ends badly. The Spanish Civil War is an example of this.

 



steven787 on 03 September 2008

@Jackson50: We are talking about religion being used to justify the invasion of another country and the deaths of innocent people (civilians and soldiers) on both sides.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.