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Forums - General - Why are you voting or not voting for Barack Obama?

Paul_Warren said:

 

"In the United States the "Wealthy" pay a disproportionately large ammount of the taxes, which means that you can raise taxes without rasining them for people under a certain income level."

 

Perhaps, but do they pay the same proportion of the income that they  do receive in taxes as do the poor?  eg.  If I'm making $15,000.00 a year as  my total salary, but I have to pay close to $3,000.00 a year in taxes which is 1/5 of my total income, then are the wealthy also paying 1/5 of their total income each year in taxes?  Do Bill Gates or some of these oil barons pay $5-6 billion each year in taxes?

This is the tax rate by income level for a single person in the United States:

$0 to $8,025: 10%
$8,025 to $32,550: 15%
$32,550 to $78,850: 25%
$78,850 to $164,550: 28%
$164,550 to $357,700: 33%
$357,700 and above: 35%

So as I said before, they pay a disproportionately large portion of the taxes already.

Now, there are no oil barrons left in the world! Oil companies are large publicly traded corporations that are heavily used by pension funds and retirement investments; the constant attacks on oil companies is really attacks on your Grandmother's retirement income. As for Bill Gates and other CEOs of large corporations, they are taxed on their income just like everyone else who earns a similar income ... He doesn't pay taxes based on his investment's value unless he sells it for a profit; in which case he pays capital-gains tax on the profit he earned.

 



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"This is the tax rate by income level for a single person in the United States:

$0 to $8,025: 10%
$8,025 to $32,550: 15%
$32,550 to $78,850: 25%
$78,850 to $164,550: 28%
$164,550 to $357,700: 33%
$357,700 and above: 35%"

Well, that's the problem see. being charged a 35% tax on $357,700 and above still leaves those people much more of an expendable income than I would have say on being charged 15% of 15,000. The difference is they would have $232,505.00 whereas I would have $12,750.00. Now, if I'm not mistaken, their having $232,505.00 left over means that they would have much more money to spend on nice cars, going on vacations, quality health care, leisure activities, furthering their educations and aesthetic pursuits, and / or putting dollar bills in the g-strings of strippers, cuter W's, than my $12,750.00 would leave me. That $219,755.00 gap is something that must be closed, and I don't really hear the Republicans coming up with any solutions for closing it.



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqLMgbtrB8

HappySqurriel said:
Paul_Warren said:

 

"In the United States the "Wealthy" pay a disproportionately large ammount of the taxes, which means that you can raise taxes without rasining them for people under a certain income level."

 

Perhaps, but do they pay the same proportion of the income that they  do receive in taxes as do the poor?  eg.  If I'm making $15,000.00 a year as  my total salary, but I have to pay close to $3,000.00 a year in taxes which is 1/5 of my total income, then are the wealthy also paying 1/5 of their total income each year in taxes?  Do Bill Gates or some of these oil barons pay $5-6 billion each year in taxes?

This is the tax rate by income level for a single person in the United States:

$0 to $8,025: 10%
$8,025 to $32,550: 15%
$32,550 to $78,850: 25%
$78,850 to $164,550: 28%
$164,550 to $357,700: 33%
$357,700 and above: 35%

So as I said before, they pay a disproportionately large portion of the taxes already.

Now, there are no oil barrons left in the world! Oil companies are large publicly traded corporations that are heavily used by pension funds and retirement investments; the constant attacks on oil companies is really attacks on your Grandmother's retirement income. As for Bill Gates and other CEOs of large corporations, they are taxed on their income just like everyone else who earns a similar income ... He doesn't pay taxes based on his investment's value unless he sells it for a profit; in which case he pays capital-gains tax on the profit he earned.

 

Man, when I leave university I have to go to the US, we have to pay 40% income tax over £36k

 



Paul_Warren said:

"- For increasing taxes as well as government spending at multiple levels, and against a flat tax (I am for lower taxes, smaller government, and a flat tax)"

Everyone says that Obama is going to raise taxes. However, the truth is he is planning on cutting taxes for everyone that makes under $50,000.00 a year. I'm all for raising taxes on the wealthy. And if Obama is going to do that, then more power to him.  Higher minimum wage + no taxes for the poorer citizens = a real shot at upward mobility for poorer people in society.  If you make less than $250,000.00 a year it is not in your best interests to vote for Mccain in November.

 

Actually, your wrong.

All of my numbers came from VoteSmart.org, and not by my own bias. You see, Obama took a Political Courage Test when he became a senator in 2004, defining where he stood on issues. For taxes, and government, he gave the following answers to the clearly defined test:

State Budget
(Back to top)

Indicate the funding levels you will support for the following general categories. Select one level only.
Maintain Status a) Agriculture
Greatly Increase b) Education (K-12)
Maintain Status c) Education (Higher)
Maintain Status d) Environment
Greatly Increase e) Health care
Maintain Status f) Law enforcement
Maintain Status g) Transportation infrastructure (highways, roads, bridges)
Slightly Increase h) Welfare

And for taxes, he gave the following answers:

State Taxes
(Back to top)

Indicate the tax levels you will support. Select one level only.
Slightly Increase a) Alcohol taxes
Maintain Status b) Capital gains taxes
Greatly Increase c) Cigarette taxes
Slightly Increase d) Corporate taxes
Slightly Increase e) Gas taxes
Slightly Decrease f) Income taxes (incomes below $75,000)
Slightly Increase g) Income taxes (incomes above $75,000)
Slightly Decrease h) Property taxes
Maintain Status i) Sales taxes

So yes, you are correct in saying that he will lower the tax burden for people below $75,000. However, if he's rasing corporate taxes, gas taxes, and income taxes, I don't see how the average American below $75,000 is going to be saving money, he is in favor of rasing 5 taxes, but reducing only 2.

You can find his answers at votesmart.org

 

Also, Paul Warren, your question "does Bill Gates pay $5b in taxes each year?" - The answer (as you know) is no. Bill Gates may be worth $40b, but he hasn't earned that much money in 1 year. He makes far less each year in salary (to which he is taxed in the proper tax bracked).



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

"So yes, you are correct in saying that he will lower the tax burden for people below $75,000. However, if he's rasing corporate taxes, gas taxes, and income taxes, I don't see how the average American below $75,000 is going to be saving money, he is in favor of rasing 5 taxes, but reducing only 2."

What you fail to see is or are anticipating is that when Barak raises these taxes on gas, etc, that there will be a raise in the costs of these services for those that make under $75,000.00 which would cancel out the benefits of lowered taxes. However, Barak is not going to allow the people that provide these services to increase their prices to an amount that would cancel out the benefit to those making under $75,000 a year. Barak has already said, that under his plan the oil people have already received what they are going to receive.



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqLMgbtrB8

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Paul_Warren said:
"So yes, you are correct in saying that he will lower the tax burden for people below $75,000. However, if he's rasing corporate taxes, gas taxes, and income taxes, I don't see how the average American below $75,000 is going to be saving money, he is in favor of rasing 5 taxes, but reducing only 2."

What you fail to see is or are anticipating is that when Barak raises these taxes on gas, etc, that there will be a raise in the costs of these services for those that make under $75,000.00 which would cancel out the benefits of lowered taxes. However, Barak is not going to allow the people that provide these services to increase their prices to an amount that would cancel out the benefit to those making under $75,000 a year. Barak has already said, that under his plan the oil people have already received what they are going to receive.

That's correct, which is why I said Barak Obama was going to raise taxes in the first place.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Paul_Warren said:
"So yes, you are correct in saying that he will lower the tax burden for people below $75,000. However, if he's rasing corporate taxes, gas taxes, and income taxes, I don't see how the average American below $75,000 is going to be saving money, he is in favor of rasing 5 taxes, but reducing only 2."

What you fail to see is or are anticipating is that when Barak raises these taxes on gas, etc, that there will be a raise in the costs of these services for those that make under $75,000.00 which would cancel out the benefits of lowered taxes. However, Barak is not going to allow the people that provide these services to increase their prices to an amount that would cancel out the benefit to those making under $75,000 a year. Barak has already said, that under his plan the oil people have already received what they are going to receive.

You can't do that in the US... and not even the congress is going to suggest that they start price fixing how high prices can raise.  Do you realize how bad that would hurt the US economy?

Not only will the companies raise the prices to make sure they make the same amount of money.  They'll likely raise their prices just a little bit extra and end up making a little more profit on it.

 

 



It's either that or make the rich have to pay higher prices for the same goods than do the poorer folks. Majority rules in this country, there are more poor people than rich people, and I'm sure that if you asked someone that was making 12,000.00 a year whether or not it bothered him that the rich folks in the country were having to pay a higher percentage for certain goods than he was, I'm pretty sure he or she would say not really. Hey, in the future, with the gaps growing more and more between what the rich and poor can have, I think this country is headed for class warfare at a certain point (ir)regardless of who wins this presedential race. Matter of fact, if Mccain were to win that day might even draw much closer than if Barak were to win because if Mccain wins the election, there will be quite a bit of unrest, disaffection, and anger in minority and lower income communities.  The Republicans don't really have a plan for elevating such people out of their current state.  The best Mccain did last night was say such people should strive to find a higher calling than themselves in life.  Barak Obama summed it up pretty accurately when he said  that all the Republicans (and Hilary Clinton) do is tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but that doesn't really work when you can't afford boots.

Most believers in prophecy think that the US is going to be destroyed in one day by an economic collapse followed by attacks from either Russia or China.



"You can't do that in the US... and not even the congress is going to suggest that they start price fixing how high prices can raise. Do you realize how bad that would hurt the US economy?

Not only will the companies raise the prices to make sure they make the same amount of money. They'll likely raise their prices just a little bit extra and end up making a little more profit on it."



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqLMgbtrB8

Paul_Warren said:
It's either that or make the rich have to pay higher prices for the same good s than do the poorer folks. Majority rules in this country, there are more poor people than rich people, and I'm sure that if you asked someone that was making 12,000.00 a year whether or not it bothered him that the rich folks in the country were having to pay a higher percentage for certain goods than he was, I'm pretty sure he or she would say not really. Hey, in the future, with the gaps growing more and more between what the rich and poor can have, I think this country is headed for class warfare at a certain point in the future regardless of who wins this presedential race. Matter of fact, if Mccain were to win that day might even draw much closer than if Barak were to win because if Mccain was to win the election, there would be quite a bit of unrest and anger in minority communities.

Most believers in prophecy think that the US is going to be destroyed in one day by an economic collapse followed by attacks from either Russia or China.



"You can't do that in the US... and not even the congress is going to suggest that they start price fixing how high prices can raise. Do you realize how bad that would hurt the US economy?

Not only will the companies raise the prices to make sure they make the same amount of money. They'll likely raise their prices just a little bit extra and end up making a little more profit on it."

That's not Majority rules.... that's mob rules. Making rich people pay more for the same product, really?

If the majority always went by what was best for them... instead of best for the coutnry like you suggest, we'd still have slavery.

The fact that you have such a viewpoint is just outright frightening.  What you are suggesting has always been one of the biggest downfalls of democracy.  People making horribly uninformed decisions just because they think it benefits them.

You don't help the poor by penalizing the rich.  That destroys motivation.

You help the poor by helping the poor.  Removing the barriers that are preventing them from succeeding.  For example better education by making it so the education system actually wants to teach you... and by greatly improving job training programs in community colleges.

Besides... i'd say that a lot of people making 12,000 a year would have a problem with that.  As a lot of people have the goal to be really rich one day.  Not everyone sees themselves stuck in a crap job forever, a lot of people want to succeed and be really successful.

I believe it's best said by a guy during the great depression.  "I don't want a handout.  I just want to work."

Actually making rich people pay more for products... that would just be an even worse pricefixing then your first suggestion.  You just can't do it.

The best you can do is subdsize prices of stuff for poor people... except that costs money.  Which can't be gotten through further tax raises, extra money for stuff like this has to be gotten by stopping wastefull spending.

Which only one candidate has a plan to do.



My point being... there is MORE then enough money in the system right now to help the poor it's just being wasted.... and taxing more isn't going to fix things, it's going to make anything done a nearly zero sum proposal, which is why social programs never seem to work.

You need to eliminate waste and redistribute the money the government is already taking in.

I mean even on each candidates website. McCain's taxcut for the middle class is higher then Obamas.

Stopping corruption and waste is the correct way to get money for helping the poor... and there is more money in that then there would be in any tax hike.