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Forums - Sony - LBP may not be the casual-core bridge sony wants it to be.

pakidan101 on 24 August 2008
Jandre002 said:
pakidan101 said:

 

1. IF LBP is a platformer, is there an underlying goal? Meaning, would there be an incentive to keep playing the game besides little prizes in the game that are at the finish line? I mean, in SMG for example, it has the most simple story: rescue the princess. But the game pushed you on; get at least 60 stars to beat the game. That was enough for the casuals. For the hardcore, you played the harder levels to get all 120 stars to beat the game, then to unlock Luigi. What is the goal for this one? Just beat as many levels as possible? Marvel at the physics of each level? If I am wrong, please correct me because even I can't believe this is the only incentive casual gamers need to fork over $460 for.

 

2. I understand that POV, seeing that I loved to play with LEGO's during my childhood. But are LEGO's $400 worth? The argument here isn't that the game will be bad, but will it be that good to entice the casuals to pay big money for? Maybe for some who are on the fence for this game, but not for everyone.

If this game was grouped with other worthy casual games then, but it is hard to see the casuals who don't own the PS3 to get this game. If there are any casuals who do have a PS3, then absolutely they will buy it. Heck, I reckon this might be the PS3 game that might entice casuals to save up their money for with the system for Christmas, given the right amount of advertising and such. Of course, there is also Animal Crossing to watch out for, followed by Wii Music.....Oh and also gotta watch out for MS, seeing as how they are also after the casual market.

Let's just hope for the best for LBP, seeing how it is a really unique game and we gamers must encourage such games to be made or risk seeing an onslaught of FPS and TPS games.

 

@jman8 Thanks for the info.....it seemed like the obvious course though but its good if there were no prices for levels.

 

@Soriku

That is my argument all along. I really doubt the casual gamers are going to pay that much for one cute game when there are hundreds of that on the Wii and DS.

If everybody makes fun of the Wii and DS for having all of these casual games, at least recognize that the casuals are going to be interested more on the Wii and DS and not be that enthused over one game on the PS3 or 360.

 

Woah wait a minute, you acutally cared about saving the princess in Mario? I never really got too into saving the princess in Mario, because I knew in a few months when Nintendo needed another game, the princess would yet again get captured by Bowzer.

What I do care about , lets say in a game like Sonic, is beating the level as quickly as possible and collecting as many rings as possible. LBP isn't just a bland level. You have boss sections, you collect little orb things, and you collect certain objects that you can later on put in your own levels. There is an incentive to beat the level, whether its just being on the high score board, or objects to customize your own levels. Also, no one knows if their will be a storyline or not. If you are creative enough, you could make this possible. (I think I could make a 10 level "game" with Sackzilla if you game me enough time.) Sure it won't be that gripping storyline that Mario was built around(lol), but its something. Hell, actually, I'm pretty sure we will be able to play Mario at some point with the general public doing this. I call within the first week.

And what game could you ever say is worth $400? LBP is $60 and you have unlimited levels basically forever. You know you dont ONLY have to play LBP? If you want to play Rock Band, Guitar Hero, an array of downloadable games, Ratchet and Clank (to name a few) buying LBP doesn't bar you from those titles.

Casual gamers will pay as much as it costs to get what they want if they have the money. I, too, think it would be much more of a hit if the price was $299, but this year the PS3 has already sold 6,000,000 consoles. Some people might even look at Blu-Ray and see LBP as a plus. People paid $600 at times just to play Wii Sports (those ridiculous bundles). Why wouldn't those same people pay $460 for LBP if it appeals enough?

 

 

Lol of course saving the princess isn't my only goal in SMG. That's just stupid. What I was trying to get to is to explain that it seems odd that people would expect your average joe who plays games once in a while to pay $460 to try a game that is essentially a game that exhibits great physics, and yet expect them to keep playing more and more levels despite the game not having a real incentive to go on. Sure, it will be fun to play a few levels....but to spend close to $500 for a few levels doesn't sound like a casual to me....sounds like a person who was already on the fence to buy the system already.

 

Oh and the bolded color spots. For the Blue part, you can already do that on the Wii or even the 360 for less money. And the Red part. Can you do Wii Sports for any other console? Or full motion controls in general? Sorry for sounding like a prick, but only the Wii can do that and if they don't have patience then you will end up paying $600 for one. But the platforming section for LBP can be done on the Wii, the DS, the PSP or even on a PS2 (minus the physics of coursse). The level editing, though, can't. Of course, everyone here seems to agree that that part is the hardcore part.



Explanation of sig:

I am a Pakistani.....my name is Dan....how hard is that? (Don't ask about the 101...apparantely there are more of me out there....)

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HappySqurriel on 24 August 2008
Jandre002 said:
pakidan101 said:
 

 

1. IF LBP is a platformer, is there an underlying goal? Meaning, would there be an incentive to keep playing the game besides little prizes in the game that are at the finish line? I mean, in SMG for example, it has the most simple story: rescue the princess. But the game pushed you on; get at least 60 stars to beat the game. That was enough for the casuals. For the hardcore, you played the harder levels to get all 120 stars to beat the game, then to unlock Luigi. What is the goal for this one? Just beat as many levels as possible? Marvel at the physics of each level? If I am wrong, please correct me because even I can't believe this is the only incentive casual gamers need to fork over $460 for.

 

2. I understand that POV, seeing that I loved to play with LEGO's during my childhood. But are LEGO's $400 worth? The argument here isn't that the game will be bad, but will it be that good to entice the casuals to pay big money for? Maybe for some who are on the fence for this game, but not for everyone.

If this game was grouped with other worthy casual games then, but it is hard to see the casuals who don't own the PS3 to get this game. If there are any casuals who do have a PS3, then absolutely they will buy it. Heck, I reckon this might be the PS3 game that might entice casuals to save up their money for with the system for Christmas, given the right amount of advertising and such. Of course, there is also Animal Crossing to watch out for, followed by Wii Music.....Oh and also gotta watch out for MS, seeing as how they are also after the casual market.

Let's just hope for the best for LBP, seeing how it is a really unique game and we gamers must encourage such games to be made or risk seeing an onslaught of FPS and TPS games.

 

@jman8 Thanks for the info.....it seemed like the obvious course though but its good if there were no prices for levels.

 

@Soriku

That is my argument all along. I really doubt the casual gamers are going to pay that much for one cute game when there are hundreds of that on the Wii and DS.

If everybody makes fun of the Wii and DS for having all of these casual games, at least recognize that the casuals are going to be interested more on the Wii and DS and not be that enthused over one game on the PS3 or 360.

 

Woah wait a minute, you acutally cared about saving the princess in Mario? I never really got too into saving the princess in Mario, because I knew in a few months when Nintendo needed another game, the princess would yet again get captured by Bowzer.

What I do care about , lets say in a game like Sonic, is beating the level as quickly as possible and collecting as many rings as possible. LBP isn't just a bland level. You have boss sections, you collect little orb things, and you collect certain objects that you can later on put in your own levels. There is an incentive to beat the level, whether its just being on the high score board, or objects to customize your own levels. Also, no one knows if their will be a storyline or not. If you are creative enough, you could make this possible. (I think I could make a 10 level "game" with Sackzilla if you game me enough time.) Sure it won't be that gripping storyline that Mario was built around(lol), but its something. Hell, actually, I'm pretty sure we will be able to play Mario at some point with the general public doing this. I call within the first week.

And what game could you ever say is worth $400? LBP is $60 and you have unlimited levels basically forever. You know you dont ONLY have to play LBP? If you want to play Rock Band, Guitar Hero, an array of downloadable games, Ratchet and Clank (to name a few) buying LBP doesn't bar you from those titles.

Casual gamers will pay as much as it costs to get what they want if they have the money. I, too, think it would be much more of a hit if the price was $299, but this year the PS3 has already sold 6,000,000 consoles. Some people might even look at Blu-Ray and see LBP as a plus. People paid $600 at times just to play Wii Sports (those ridiculous bundles). Why wouldn't those same people pay $460 for LBP if it appeals enough?

 

That's like saying people will pay as much as it costs to buy the car the want (if they have the money) ...

That may be true of the enthusiast in any market place but is rarely true of the more general consumer or the more "Casual" consumers. In general, even highly paid (well employed) generally do not "have the money" to pay for expensive things that are not that important to them, because they have spent the money on things that are important to them. I'm certain that many people on this site know of (at least) one person who owns an amazingly expensive flashy car, and yet lives in a tiny apartment in order to afford the car.



Renar on 24 August 2008

Sounds like an intriguing game. But as one mentioned already, it will come down to marketing. Sony will need to realize that they don't want a game that sells hot in the first week then dies off as do so many of their hardcore games. To do well, and to get the casuals that they want with this game, they need to convince not the core gamers but to convince the consumers buying the PS3 as a Blu-Ray movie player, that this game is cute enough to play without being too hard to play.

It's going to be a difficult tightrope to manuveer over. Too cute and the majority of hardcore base will reject it. Not cute enough and the casuals will reject it.

It seems to have been a long time in the making. I wonder how much it costed to make, and how many copies must be sold to get a profit out of it?



Torturing the numbers.  Hear them scream.

makingmusic476 on 24 August 2008

You're missing the point.  It's the building that's most of the fun, even if what you build is pretty crappy.  It's all about having fun while building it.

From a preview with Edge-Online:

Hands-on, Create is not a million miles away from a simple art package. We start by selecting a material and brush shape from Popit, and are soon drawing a thick swathe of shiny metal plating on to the environment. Using the right stick, we alter the size of the brush as we go, and then break this into chunks with judicious stabs of the eraser. When we switch to test mode, our strange metal landscape falls to the floor, rocked back and forth by the physics engine, before coming to rest (you can use ‘dark matter’ to glue blocks in the air, but the designers rarely do).

We’re left with a pile of chunky rubble, but within seconds we’re tugging it about to form a promising assault course, and Healey is already showing us how to build working motors from a few metal blocks and a cog, while technical director Alex Evans stops by to offer instruction on the serious business of adding belch effects to stone lumps to make granite whoopee cushions. Even without this top-quality help, we’re quickly finding things we want to do, just by pulling objects from Popit and trying them out.

The results are hardly Yoshi’s Island, but within five minutes we’ve turned a blank canvas into a playground we could happily mess about in for hours, tweaking platforms and playing with the physics properties of different materials. And we’ve done it all without thinking – the design emerging from the ease with which we moved between building and testing.

The emphasis throughout is on enjoyment rather than speed. “We’ve put the priority on making the game fun to use,” says Evans (pictured). “People think you’ll be able to make a Miyamoto-style level in five minutes. Not quite. You can make a Miyamoto level, but it will probably take all weekend. Our effort has been to make sure that weekend’s fun.”



makingmusic476 on 24 August 2008

Just watch this video:



And imagine what you'd be thinking while creating this stuff. Things like:

"Wow, that was cool how that fell over."

"Holy crap! Catapult!"

"lol, this fish is flopping all over the place."

Really, it's the physics system that makes this game so damn fun.



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Domicinator on 24 August 2008
makingmusic476 said:
Just watch this video:



And imagine what you'd be thinking while creating this stuff. Things like:

"Wow, that was cool how that fell over."

"Holy crap! Catapult!"

"lol, this fish is flopping all over the place."

Really, it's the physics system that makes this game so damn fun.

 

There's no doubt the game looks really fun.  We're just speculating on the sales.  I think they will be good, not great.  And I really don't think it will push hardware.




makingmusic476 on 24 August 2008
Domicinator said:
makingmusic476 said:
Just watch this video:



And imagine what you'd be thinking while creating this stuff. Things like:

"Wow, that was cool how that fell over."

"Holy crap! Catapult!"

"lol, this fish is flopping all over the place."

Really, it's the physics system that makes this game so damn fun.

 

There's no doubt the game looks really fun.  We're just speculating on the sales.  I think they will be good, not great.  And I really don't think it will push hardware.

 

Did you read the OP?  This entire thread focuses on the accessibility of the game, and has nothing to do with sales.  The OP said that "casuals" probably won't be willing to put in the effort to create a good level, and I pointed out that it will take little effort at all, as the actual creating will be as fun, if not more fun, than the end result.



Jandre002 on 24 August 2008

@Happy Squrriel and Pakidan101

Thinking about it now, you both might be right. I do see an issue with a lot of people buying a PS3 at $399 for LBP. But I think it will remain in the public eye throughout the holiday season. It might sell as a package for those who haven't adopted a console yet, and it will probably sell to families as a whole who become interested in an HD standard.

This holiday season it will probably be limited by the PS3's price. If, however, Sony were capable of finding a way to have the PS3 hit $299 through hardware revisions, I think this game could reach 5 million plus.

So the demand will be there for the hit(and will remain there for awhile), but not enough individual demand to overcome the $399 price for casuals.

Realistically though, I think this year the most it will hit with the PS3's price point is 2,500,000 WW, unless Sony crafts some super ad that advertises LBP, HOME, downloads, and Blu-ray in one swift 60 second commercial, and does it in a clever way.



Jo21 on 24 August 2008
CAL4M1TY said:

Well, LBP is on the horizon and I'm very excited.

This game has been on my radar since it was first announce, at the time I was intrigued more for the fact it wasn't gritty and grey rather then the gameplay, but since then, this game has made it to the top of my most anticipated games of 2008 (Gears placed 2nd, Resistance 3rd and Fallout 4th).

But one thing I've began to notice is that many people, including sony's own and the PS3 fans here, claim this game to be the bridge that connects casual and hardcore for the PS3, bringing in new customers. While it might share some characteristics with other popular casual titles on the system (non-gore, colourful and with "cute" characters), it may not be the bridge after all. Why?

Well, we've all seen the impressive video's of the building stages component of the game, but this is the part that worries me. Those 4-5 minute video's are obviously sped up, so in reality creating a decent map may take more than half an hour possibly stretching into the hours to perfect it. As the Wii has proven, casual games attract casual gamers because they can spend quick game sessions with them and feel like they've accomplished something. It seems like to be truly satisfied with a created map (the point where it all clicks and works perfectly) may take some time and I'm not sure if the casual gamers would sit around fiddling until they've accomplished that. You certainly don't need that much time to make an accomplishment on Buzz or Singstar.

Another popular "casual" game, in fact THE MOST popular, is The Sims. That involves building up a family and surrounding area, which is obviously time consuming. What differentiates The Sims from LBP though, is that once you've set up the foundations (which can take hours at times) the game starts to "take care of itself" and it only requires minimal input. LBP isn't like that, it requires you to build a successful map, play through it and then build another.

LBP doesn't have characteristics of either of those two casual game types (pick up and play OR build something that self-sustains).

Another issue is the menus, if any of you take the time to look at the menus when the player chooses parts to place onto the stage, you'll notice you have ALOT of choice. This seems like it'd be very daunting for someone who a) doesn't play games oftenly or b) doesn't want to make time to sift through these menus.

The most obvious spanner to throw into my works is of course the fact that you can just download and play through maps created by users, which'll definitely attract more people to the game, but doesn't that completely cut off half the game from these casual gamers? Why would they invest in a PS3 for one game when the Wii offers the pickup and play style that they've gotten used to? The Wii also offers boom blox, another much more simpler physics based game.

As a MS supporter owning a PS3, I only care that this game will be good(and it looks to be), sales of the PS3 doesn't concern me at all, only the PS3 fans. But because the casual market may be a big factor in determining this games sales success, this is a pretty interesting issue for those concerned with PS3 sales


So is LBP truly the bridge between casual and core Sony so desperately want on their system?

Discuss.

they is a hole in your logic.

making the maps is optional...

there is going to be ranking of popular made by people maps with you get to play and download.

also u get 50+ with the game, some may for more than 1 person.

even if some casual don't have the talent to make em.

second the menus, we haven't seem much of interface so i can't comment much , it does look simple enough for anyone to play.

 



scottie on 24 August 2008

At the original post

You have some great points, but I feel you're underestimating the casual gamer. Whilst I agree it wont be successful at targeting non-gamers and lapsed gamers, it will surely appeal to the casuals.