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Forums - General - When do you believe LIFE begins?

Soleron on 23 August 2008
Million said:
Soleron said:
Milton:
but people that argue self-awareness or thinking ability makes an organism any less of a life are being extremley ignorant.

 

 

So, all organisms are equal ("no less of a life")? Bacteria have just as much a right to life as a human being? You kill thousands of bacteria every day because they aren't self-aware. By your own definition, that makes you just as bad as a mass human murderer.

How is a single-cell-stage human embryo different from a single bacterium cell? You're being speciesist and biased towards humanity if you think there's a difference.

There has to be a distinction, and the point where it is unacceptable to abort should be decided on a case-by-case basis considering the opinion of scientists, medical experts and the parents.

 

 

I never said all organmisms are equal I believe that human beings are in a sense superior beings but we should have a respect for other living creatures.

Because of their thinking ability and self-awareness, perhaps?

I said that a lack of thinking ability doesn't make you less of a living being but I wasn't making a generalisation I was refering directly to single stage cell humans , a singe-cell-stage human being and a single bacterium can't be judged on the same basis as they are far from the same thing

Biologically and chemically, no. Individual bacteria can be more distinct from on another than bacteria from humans. The difference is "potential", which I will address below.

, a single cell stage human being has the potential to become a fully developed human being , why would killing a single cell stage human being not be the same as killing a fully developed one , given the time and care it's innevitable that the prior will become the latter.

Yes, and my cheese mould, given time and care, would evolve into sentient beings too. If I turn left at a given junction rather than right, I will fail to meet potential partners and possible babies won't be conceieved. Also, most foetuses spontaneously abort and most sperm die before reaching an egg. If everything was argued from "potential", everyone would commit crimes every time they made another step. Unless you believe some higher-order being (God) predestined the universe and you are going against that by ending potential, then potential is not a sound position to argue from because given enough time, everything could become everything else. If you do believe in God, you have no right to impose that belief on the actions of others who do not share it.

 



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akuma587 on 23 August 2008

Well I look at two landmarks as pretty important when determining where "life" begins.

Its not at conception. For awhile you are nothing more than the equivalent of skin cells I pull out from the inside of my cheek.

One strong case is when brainwave activity begins, around the 10th (?) week of pregnancy.

Another strong case is when the fetus can actually survive on its own outside the womb, which can vary based upon the baby, but is generally in the 5-8 month range. Obviously the baby needs a lot more postnatal care if it is only 5 months.



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thanny on 23 August 2008

i think its ridiculous that a mother can choose to kill a baby whenever it is inside of her but the instant its out if she kills it she gets put up for murder and will go to jail etc.im not gonna debate about when life officially "begins" but im against abortion.



 

 

 

 

 

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Soleron on 23 August 2008
akuma587 said:

Well I look at two landmarks as pretty important when determining where "life" begins.

Its not at conception. For awhile you are nothing more than the equivalent of skin cells I pull out from the inside of my cheek.

One strong case is when brainwave activity begins, around the 10th (?) week of pregnancy.

Another strong case is when the fetus can actually survive on its own outside the womb, which can vary based upon the baby, but is generally in the 5-8 month range. Obviously the baby needs a lot more postnatal care if it is only 5 months.

Drawing legal lines in the sand based on those statements has got to be wrong, though. Saying, "Today it is legal to abort for this reason but tomorrow it isn't" is absurd because nothing in the development cycle is sudden (it's all smooth transitions) and having the 'average' time as law doesn't take account of the fact that a large number are different from the average.

I think those kind of facts should go together with medical opinion and a case-by-case assesment of the parents' and foetus's situation to decide when is acceptable and when is not. It's very easy to say "12 weeks or bust" but abortion is a less clear-cut issue than that.

 



rocketpig on 23 August 2008

When does life "begin"?

Honestly, I don't give a fuck. I won't tell anyone what to do with their own body. It's irrelevant in my opinion. Not my place to say.




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Soleron on 23 August 2008
rocketpig said:
I won't tell anyone what to do with their own body. It's irrelevant in my opinion. Not my place to say.

 

That's not right either. If a foetus is aborted a week before birth because the mother doesn't want a female baby, isn't that wrong? It depends on the time, reason and situation, and no single-line statement can cover any reasonable and justified stance on abortion.



rocketpig on 23 August 2008
Soleron said:
rocketpig said:
I won't tell anyone what to do with their own body. It's irrelevant in my opinion. Not my place to say.

 

That's not right either. If a foetus is aborted a week before birth because the mother doesn't want a female baby, isn't that wrong? It depends on the time, reason and situation, and no single-line statement can cover any reasonable and justified stance on abortion.

Like I said, it's not my place to say. You can disagree but I have this nasty habit of not telling others what to do with their own body.

You can stand up on the highest mountaintop in the world and yell "but teh BABY!!!!11" and I still won't listen. Until it leaves the mother's body, I feel I have no say in the matter.

I'm against abortion but I respect individual rights above all else.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

SamuelRSmith on 23 August 2008

rofl @ rocketpig's hulkmod

For me? At birth.



bloody swamp on 23 August 2008

Life begins when you play your first video game.



ikilledkenny on 23 August 2008

Life starts at birth.