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Forums - General - If Iran becomes a nuclear power?

hasanraza said:
MrBubbles said:
Saddam wanted wmds, in the past tried to make them, and was acting like he had them. It was a dangerous game...Saddam thought the US was bluffing and he paid the ultimate price for that.

 

Before the war on iraq US use to say that iraq had weapens of mass destruction but what i believe after the war they couldnt even found one.

 

Thats because Saddam couldnt fund programs.  That doesnt change his desire...or that he was acting like he had them...



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hasanraza said:
NJ5 i think Russia will use Iran the way America had used Afghanistan against Russia. The people of Iran r brave they need weapons and tech to counter America or its allies.


That could well happen, after all Russia has already been selling military equipment to Iran (as well as to Venezuela lately).

@MrBubbles: WMDs were simply an excuse, nothing else. It's securing Iraq's oil and territorial dominance of the middle east which USA's neocons were after (and got).

 



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I personally have no issue with Iran becoming Nuclear powered as long as they dont attack other countries with it but use it to power their citizen's homes and make life better.

The only way to make this world more equal and balanced is to allow third world countries to increase their economic stance through technology which include more advanced sources of power.



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Rock_on_2008 said:
War on Iran or war on Iraq. America will kill the terrorists. BTW: I always thought Iran and Iraq was the same thing.

The bad part is how you look at it. In their culture terrorists are looked at as freedom fighters. Like my heros and villians thread says, there is no per se good and bad in this war. It is a war of beliefs. American thinks one way and the Islamic faith believes another. They are terrorists here as we are terrorists there.



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Here is an article which explains why Israel is likely to cause war with Iran:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/18/opinion/edmorris.php

Israel will almost surely attack Iran's nuclear sites in the next four to seven months - and the leaders in Washington and even Tehran should hope that the attack will be successful enough to cause at least a significant delay in the Iranian production schedule, if not complete destruction, of that country's nuclear program. Because if the attack fails, the Middle East will almost certainly face a nuclear war - either through a subsequent pre-emptive Israeli nuclear strike or a nuclear exchange shortly after Iran gets the bomb.

It is in the interest of neither Iran nor the United States (nor, for that matter, the rest of the world) that Iran be savaged by a nuclear strike, or that both Israel and Iran suffer such a fate. We know what would ensue: a traumatic destabilization of the Middle East with resounding consequences around the globe, serious injury to the West's oil supply and radioactive pollution of the earth's atmosphere and water.

But should Israel's conventional assault fail to significantly harm or stall the Iranian program, a ratcheting up of the Iranian-Israeli conflict to a nuclear level will most likely follow. Every intelligence agency in the world believes the Iranian program is geared toward making weapons, not to the peaceful applications of nuclear power. And, despite the current talk of additional economic sanctions, everyone knows that such measures have so far led nowhere and are unlikely to be applied with sufficient scope to cause Iran real pain, given Russia's and China's continued recalcitrance and Western Europe's (and America's) ambivalence in behavior, if not in rhetoric. Western intelligence agencies agree that Iran will reach the "point of no return" in acquiring the capacity to produce nuclear weapons in one to four years.

Which leaves the world with only one option if it wishes to halt Iran's march toward nuclear weaponry: the military option, meaning an aerial assault by either the United States or Israel. Clearly, America has the conventional military capacity to do the job, which would involve a protracted air assault against Iran's air defenses followed by strikes on the nuclear sites themselves. But, as a result of the Iraq imbroglio, and what is rapidly turning into the Afghan imbroglio, the American public has little enthusiasm for wars in the Islamic lands. This curtails the White House's ability to begin yet another major military campaign in pursuit of a goal that is not seen as a vital national interest by many Americans.

Which leaves only Israel - the country threatened almost daily with destruction by Iran's leaders. Thus the recent reports about Israeli plans and preparations to attack Iran (the period from Nov. 5 to Jan. 19 seems the best bet, as it gives the West half a year to try the diplomatic route but ensures that Israel will have support from a lame-duck White House).

The problem is that Israel's military capacities are far smaller than America's and, given the distances involved, the fact that the Iranian sites are widely dispersed and underground, and Israel's inadequate intelligence, it is unlikely that the Israeli conventional forces, even if allowed the use of Jordanian and Iraqi airspace (and perhaps, pending American approval, even Iraqi air strips) can destroy or perhaps significantly delay the Iranian nuclear project.

Nonetheless, Israel, believing that its very existence is at stake - and this is a feeling shared by most Israelis across the political spectrum - will certainly make the effort. Israel's leaders, from Prime Minister Ehud Olmert down, have all explicitly stated that an Iranian bomb means Israel's destruction; Iran will not be allowed to get the bomb.

The best outcome will be that an Israeli conventional strike, whether failed or not - and, given the Tehran regime's totalitarian grip, it may not be immediately clear how much damage the Israeli assault has caused - would persuade the Iranians to halt their nuclear program, or at least persuade the Western powers to significantly increase the diplomatic and economic pressure on Iran.

But the more likely result is that the international community will continue to do nothing effective and that Iran will speed up its efforts to produce the bomb that can destroy Israel. The Iranians will also likely retaliate by attacking Israel's cities with ballistic missiles (possibly topped with chemical or biological warheads); by prodding its local clients, Hezbollah and Hamas, to unleash their own armories against Israel; and by activating international Muslim terrorist networks against Israeli and Jewish - and possibly American - targets worldwide (though the Iranians may at the last moment be wary of provoking American military involvement).

Such a situation would confront Israeli leaders with two agonizing, dismal choices. One is to allow the Iranians to acquire the bomb and hope for the best - meaning a nuclear standoff, with the prospect of mutual assured destruction preventing the Iranians from actually using the weapon. The other would be to use the Iranian counter-strikes as an excuse to escalate and use the only means available that will actually destroy the Iranian nuclear project: Israel's own nuclear arsenal.

Given the fundamentalist, self-sacrificial mindset of the mullahs who run Iran, Israel knows that deterrence may not work as well as it did with the comparatively rational men who ran the Kremlin and White House during the Cold War. They are likely to use any bomb they build, both because of ideology and because of fear of Israeli nuclear pre-emption. Thus an Israeli nuclear strike to prevent the Iranians from taking the final steps toward getting the bomb is probable. The alternative is letting Tehran have its bomb. In either case, a Middle Eastern nuclear holocaust would be in the cards.

Iran's leaders would do well to rethink their gamble and suspend their nuclear program. Bar this, the best they could hope for is that Israel's conventional air assault will destroy their nuclear facilities. To be sure, this would mean thousands of Iranian casualties and international humiliation. But the alternative is an Iran turned into a nuclear wasteland. Some Iranians may believe that this is a worthwhile gamble if the prospect is Israel's demise. But most Iranians probably don't.

Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion University, is the author, most recently, of "1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War."

 



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SamuelRSmith said:
hasanraza said:
MrBubbles said:
Saddam wanted wmds, in the past tried to make them, and was acting like he had them. It was a dangerous game...Saddam thought the US was bluffing and he paid the ultimate price for that.

 

Before the war on iraq US use to say that iraq had weapens of mass destruction but what i believe after the war they couldnt even found one. The weapens they were talking about were used in the iran iraq war which were what sources say provided by US herself.

The weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were a fabrication, used to get America into Iraq to take control of her oil. Making several US Politicians a lot of money.

 

 

 What?! The ignorance in most of the posts in this thread is hilarious.

The US did not go into Iraq for oil. That is the most illogical conspiracy theory ever created. Whether you believe in WMD's or not were there, we took out a dictator who was found guilty for war crimes against his own people, and his neighboring countries by the UN. You can make theories for WMD's, taking out Saddam, or even just trying to spread democracy or US influence, but if you really think the US went for oil, go look at gas prices.

Iraq does not produce a whole lot of oil to warrant a war. If we were going to invade a country for oil, I would go for Venezuela.

 

As for Iran, the UN or even NATO should intervene to at least check up on whether or not they are using it for energy, or weapons. Energy usage is fine, but they should not have nuclear weapons. They are the kind of country to not be afraid to nuke Israel off the face of the map.



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@Bursche: Just because USA's efforts with Iraq went horribly wrong, that doesn't mean that American companies won't profit from USA being there. Using the oil price as "proof" that USA didn't benefit from that doesn't make any sense. Please clarify if you mean something else.

By the way, here are the approximate oil reserve sizes:

Venezuela: 80-100 billion barrels
Iraq: 80-110 billion barrels

Iraq is only topped by Iran and Saudi Arabia (and Canada if you count non-conventional oil). Does your argument still seem valid after seeing this data?

 



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It won't be the U.S. who bombs Iran back to the 12th century if they start showing signs of getting close to nuclear weapons.

There are 4 or 5 other countries who would do it first. Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, maybe even Jordan... none of them want to see a Nuclear Iran.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

NJ5 said:

@Bursche: Just because USA's efforts with Iraq went horribly wrong, that doesn't mean that American companies won't profit from USA being there. Using the oil price as "proof" that USA didn't benefit from that doesn't make any sense. Please clarify if you mean something else.

By the way, here are the approximate oil reserve sizes:

Venezuela: 80-100 billion barrels
Iraq: 80-110 billion barrels

Iraq is only topped by Iran and Saudi Arabia (and Canada if you count non-conventional oil). Does your argument still seem valid after seeing this data?

 

I didnt say American companies didnt profit, I said that we did not go in for oil. If you argue we went in to just start a war for our military contracters and the sort, I would disagree, but that has more merit than the oil argument.

Having oil reserves, and annual oil production, are different. We have spent billions of dollars in the war effort, which if it was for oil, would be the most idiotic quest in the history of man. We could have spent those dollars buying or drilling for our own oil.

Most people start calling out theories to blame the US government for Iraq because they feel dooped. While you dont want to believe that there were WMD's, during the start of the war, the US public, the UN, the President and most of Washington believed there were.

 



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Bursche said:

What?! The ignorance in most of the posts in this thread is hilarious.

The US did not go into Iraq for oil. That is the most illogical conspiracy theory ever created. Whether you believe in WMD's or not were there, we took out a dictator who was found guilty for war crimes against his own people, and his neighboring countries by the UN. You can make theories for WMD's, taking out Saddam, or even just trying to spread democracy or US influence, but if you really think the US went for oil, go look at gas prices.

Iraq does not produce a whole lot of oil to warrant a war. If we were going to invade a country for oil, I would go for Venezuela.

As for Iran, the UN or even NATO should intervene to at least check up on whether or not they are using it for energy, or weapons. Energy usage is fine, but they should not have nuclear weapons. They are the kind of country to not be afraid to nuke Israel off the face of the map.


Saying everything happened because of oil is of course a gross oversimplification of a very complex process, but if you seriously think oil had nothing to do with it, go look at oil company profits. Heck, go look at the profits of any major companies that the top guys of the Bush administration own.

I don't feel like committing myself to a long and tiresome argument right now, but your last sentence is pretty disturbing. The people running Iran aren't stupid, and they realise that initiating a nuclear war will get themselves killed. They're also nowhere near as bloodthirsty as you seem to think. Iran has a notable Jewish minority that's doing just fine, and the whole "wiping Israel off the map" thing was a mistranslation on par with "we will bury you".