RolStoppable said: MikeB said: @ redspear Mike Controllers change I think the bigger issue is nintendo putting less horsepower in its machine. All I am saying is that Nintendo did not invent the D-Pad and got their inspiration from other controllers, just like any modern controller. IMO the NES controller wasn't that good and while the Snes controller was a good improvement it doesn't show anything extra-ordinary revolutionary. And yes, the Wii horsepower is a concern if you want to play the most impressive games. But if not, it can still do a lot just like the PS2 can. The horsepower of every console is a concern if you want to play the most impressive games, if you are solely talking about graphics. If you want to play the most impressive games you have only one choice: the PC.

 Is it me or are there not so good PC exclusives anymore :(.

On topic   UPDATE: Sony says the rumor isn't true.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/opinion-if-sony.html 

@ RolStoppable

No, I choose the PS3 just like I choose the Amiga when they were more powerful.

I understand that you may not believe me when I say how powerful the PS3 really is when the SPEs are fully used (new games engines, which take some time to be developed compared to just porting existing engines). But I think with due time this will change.

I do own a PC though which runs Half-Life 2 pretty well, but with the PS3 out I don't plan to upgrade it for many years to come.

MikeB said: @ redspear Mike Controllers change I think the bigger issue is nintendo putting less horsepower in its machine. All I am saying is that Nintendo did not invent the D-Pad and got their inspiration from other controllers, just like any modern controller. IMO the NES controller wasn't that good and while the Snes controller was a good improvement it doesn't show anything extra-ordinary revolutionary. And yes, the Wii horsepower is a concern if you want to play the most impressive games. But if not, it can still do a lot just like the PS2 can.

Whilte the Wii horsepower is a concern it is not as big as a concern as the price of the other consoles. The Wii is more powerful than the GC and the XBOX and definitely more powerful than the PS2. However compared to my PC the 360 and PS3 games just aren't as impressive especially if you take resolution and framerate into account.

As for being innovative companies do borrow from each others all the time. However in the last several generations only one company has been effective in introducing standards and that is Nintendo(though Sega was the one who introduced analog shoulder buttons). The whole key to controlelrs is ergonomics. the SNES is perhaps the most succesful controller in regards to the number of buttons that are not wasted on the face at any given time and that is what makes it revolutionary and the basis of the modern day controller.

 

I mean lets see you go throug Sony's innovations in anything. They claim to be the copany to invent the Charged Couple Device used in digital cameras....ooops that was invented by fairchild in the 70's. OK DVD's? nope that was invented by Toshiba but Sony agreed to support it iwth a name change and if they added phillips EFMI+. CDs? invented by phillips but sony designed the sound chip at phillips request.

Apples list of innovations. GUI? stolen from Xerox PARC which did it way earlier(many employees of the PARC project are mad that xerox never pushed forward with it in a more commercial venue), as was mouse and datafax integrations even color implemetnation. Amiga was the first to incorporate colorMAGIC.

 

However it is the implementations of standards and their creations which matter and this is why many companies get credit for stuff they didn't do...Like RCA and Philco.

@ konnichiwa

Too bad, I still would like to see a Wii-like device on the PS3. The Nintendo Wii-mote still isn't very useful in Linux, at least without some kind of Wii emulator...

MikeB said: @ RolStoppable The horsepower of every console is a concern if you want to play the most impressive games, if you are solely talking about graphics. If you want to play the most impressive games you have only one choice: the PC. No, I choose the PS3 just like I choose the Amiga when they were more powerful. I understand that you may not believe me when I say how powerful the PS3 really is when the SPEs are fully used (new games engines, which take some time to be developed compared to just porting existing engines). But I think with due time this will change. I do own a PC though which runs Half-Life 2 pretty well, but with the PS3 out I don't plan to upgrade it for many years to come.

The AMIGA was way way more powerful than either apple or PC at teh esame time this kind of gap doesn't exist with the PS3. Multicore processing isn't going to save it when the graphics chip is already archaic in the PC world.

 

What saves consoles from becoming fully obselete is that programmers can tweak more out of uniform hardware and can focus on optimization...another bonus the Amiga had. But when you run Lost Planet at amx resolution on a 30 in screen it is already much clearer looking than if it ran on 1080P on a PS3 or 360(which it runs at 720P)...It takes a lot more power to run at those resolutions but the higher the rez the less the payback it is easily second or third on the list of the most important things in gaming.

 

By the time the PS3 will start optimizing mainstream graphics cards fo rthe PC will be way more powerful and many of the games coming out for the PS3 and 360 will also be on the PC with better resolutions better shaders and a higher quality graphics. Not to mention that you can use a 360PC controlelr or PS3 controlelr to play those same games.

MikeB said: @ konnichiwa Too bad, I still would like to see a Wii-like device on the PS3. It's still not very useful in Linux, at least without some kind of Wii emulator...

Why? As someone who complains about graphics, that seems like a horrible plan. The PS2 was the weakest console LAST generation, would you really want to play games worse looking than Wii games with worse motion sensing tech that 3rd parties would never waste their time making games for? I'm sorry but this just seems completely illogical from any angle other than "I don't like it when Nintendo does it but if it's Sony it's okay." And no, the Wii is not the same strength as the PS2. It's in fact superior to the Xbox in GPU and CPU, and offers quite a few new effects that the Xbox wasn't capable of.

RolStoppable said: konnichiwa said: Is it me or are there not so good PC exclusives anymore :(. On topic UPDATE: Sony says the rumor isn't true. http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/opinion-if-sony.html It's you. Crysis is real.

 Crysis   and  ????  W_W The only game that I maybe want and that I know that is only for PC.

I just wanted to interject that motion controls are not the best for ALL games, and until virtual controls are available we'll still see plenty of game pad, sticks, etc...

konnichiwa said: RolStoppable said: konnichiwa said: Is it me or are there not so good PC exclusives anymore :(. On topic UPDATE: Sony says the rumor isn't true. http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/opinion-if-sony.html It's you. Crysis is real.  Crysis   and  ????  W_W The only game that I maybe want and that I know that is only for PC.

Oblivion with proper settigns looks way better than the PS3 version.

 

naznatips said: MikeB said: @ konnichiwa Too bad, I still would like to see a Wii-like device on the PS3. It's still not very useful in Linux, at least without some kind of Wii emulator... Why? As someone who complains about graphics, that seems like a horrible plan. The PS2 was the weakest console LAST generation, would you really want to play games worse looking than Wii games with worse motion sensing tech that 3rd parties would never waste their time making games for? I'm sorry but this just seems completely illogical from any angle other than "I don't like it when Nintendo does it but if it's Sony it's okay." And no, the Wii is not the same strength as the PS2. It's in fact superior to the Xbox in GPU and CPU, and offers quite a few new effects that the Xbox wasn't capable of.

 Did he say he doesn't like the Wii?  If he does I can add him as friend ^^ finally someone with brains.. JUST KIDDING.

I don't want that device but I understand if it is cheap like 20-40$ that people would like it.