windbane said: The difference was not gigantic. The N64 was limited in different ways than the PS1 but both had their advantages. Obviously, Square and Konami (and almost all the other third parties) favored that Sony format, the cd.

Yes it was huge.  It was a 32 bit system against a 64 bit system, which had much more advanced rendering, shading, etc.  Believe me I own both and I know the difference very well.  Obviously the PSone had an advantage in the storage space available on CDs, but that advantage isn't as big this time.  The leap in space isn't as large, and it's shrunk even more by the fact that the PS3 often makes games in full 1080p, which pretty much nullifies it's capacity advantage over the Wii because of how much more space it makes games take up.  The Wii's capacity is 8.5GB per game (5 2/3 times that of the GC before it) and the PS3's is 30GB.  The issue is though that 1080p graphics take up massive amounts of disc space.

naznatips said: windbane said: I think those factors are very important. Graphics aren't going to change for the Wii console, the control system limits the types of games that work well, and the third parties are launching their main games on 360 and PS3 still. It's still very early. Howso? What games do we have out for the Wii/comming out sofar? An action adventure (Zelda), a Platformer (SMG), an RPG/Platformer combo (SPM), Shooter (red Steel), an actually GOOD shooter (Metroid Prime 3), Fighter (SSBM), Racing (Excite Truck), plus a million god awful minigame sets. Am I missing any essential genres there?

A good shooter has yet to be seen.  I hope they get it right.  I want calibration for TV sizes.  I want it to work with large TVs, HD or SD.

How about a fighting game that doesn't suffer from having to use the Wiimote/nunchuck?  Mortal Kombat suffered.

I guess we'll just wait for Nintendo to release a game for every genre.  I hope they can get it right at least. 

naznatips said: windbane said: The difference was not gigantic. The N64 was limited in different ways than the PS1 but both had their advantages. Obviously, Square and Konami (and almost all the other third parties) favored that Sony format, the cd. Yes it was huge. It was a 32 bit system against a 64 bit system, which had much more advanced rendering, shading, etc. Believe me I own both and I know the difference very well. Obviously the PSone had an advantage in the storage space available on CDs, but that advantage isn't as big this time. The leap in space isn't as large, and it's shrunk even more by the fact that the PS3 often makes games in full 1080p, which pretty much nullifies it's capacity advantage over the Wii because of how much more space it makes games take up. The Wii's capacity is 8.5GB per game (5 2/3 times that of the GC before it) and the PS3's is 30GB. The issue is though that 1080p graphics take up massive amounts of disc space.

Most games are in 720p, but sure, that can take up more space. Still, enough space for Stranglehold to bundle a full 1080p blu-ray version of Hard Boiled...on the same disc. It's 50GB, btw. HD-dvd is 30GB on the double layer version. Huge difference.

Edit: Oh, and that's 5 and 15/17ths bigger than the Wii and 360 discs.

windbane said: naznatips said: windbane said: I think those factors are very important. Graphics aren't going to change for the Wii console, the control system limits the types of games that work well, and the third parties are launching their main games on 360 and PS3 still. It's still very early. Howso? What games do we have out for the Wii/comming out sofar? An action adventure (Zelda), a Platformer (SMG), an RPG/Platformer combo (SPM), Shooter (red Steel), an actually GOOD shooter (Metroid Prime 3), Fighter (SSBM), Racing (Excite Truck), plus a million god awful minigame sets. Am I missing any essential genres there? A good shooter has yet to be seen. I hope they get it right. I want calibration for TV sizes. I want it to work with large TVs, HD or SD. How about a fighting game that doesn't suffer from having to use the Wiimote/nunchuck? Mortal Kombat suffered. I guess we'll just wait for Nintendo to release a game for every genre. I hope they can get it right at least.

Well I agree, there is technically no garuntee that MP3 will be well controlled.  I do fine with my 42inch widescreen on shooters though.  I enjoy shooting range on Wii play and even played Red Steel on it when I rented it and enjoyed it. 

As far as a fighting game that doesn't use the Wiimote and Nunchuck, SSBB does not require you to, though it gives it as an option.  You can control the game 4 ways: Wiimote, Wiimote + Nunchuck, Gamecube controller, Classic controller. 

Well thanks for the debate guys, but it's 3:40 AM here and my brain is shutting down (as you can see from my horrible misquote of the Genesis sales numbers and mixing up of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD capacity) lol.  I enjoyed the discussion, and I appreciate your points of view.  IMO this is turning into the best generation in gaming, with an expanding market and amazing new versions of our favorite games from the previous generations.  I'll continue the discussion with you guys tomorrow if you want, but it really does all boil down to our own perceptions of the current state of the industry and no one ever has their opinion changed hehe.

naznatips said: windbane said: naznatips said: windbane said: I think those factors are very important. Graphics aren't going to change for the Wii console, the control system limits the types of games that work well, and the third parties are launching their main games on 360 and PS3 still. It's still very early. Howso? What games do we have out for the Wii/comming out sofar? An action adventure (Zelda), a Platformer (SMG), an RPG/Platformer combo (SPM), Shooter (red Steel), an actually GOOD shooter (Metroid Prime 3), Fighter (SSBM), Racing (Excite Truck), plus a million god awful minigame sets. Am I missing any essential genres there? A good shooter has yet to be seen. I hope they get it right. I want calibration for TV sizes. I want it to work with large TVs, HD or SD. How about a fighting game that doesn't suffer from having to use the Wiimote/nunchuck? Mortal Kombat suffered. I guess we'll just wait for Nintendo to release a game for every genre. I hope they can get it right at least. Well I agree, there is technically no garuntee that MP3 will be well controlled. I do fine with my 42inch widescreen on shooters though. I enjoy shooting range on Wii play and even played Red Steel on it when I rented it and enjoyed it. As far as a fighting game that doesn't use the Wiimote and Nunchuck, SSBB does not require you to, though it gives it as an option. You can control the game 4 ways: Wiimote, Wiimote + Nunchuck, Gamecube controller, Classic controller. Well thanks for the debate guys, but it's 3:40 AM here and my brain is shutting down (as you can see from my horrible misquote of the Genesis sales numbers and mixing up of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD capacity) lol. I enjoyed the discussion, and I appreciate your points of view. IMO this is turning into the best generation in gaming, with an expanding market and amazing new versions of our favorite games from the previous generations. I'll continue the discussion with you guys tomorrow if you want, but it really does all boil down to our own perceptions of the current state of the industry and no one ever has their opinion changed hehe.

Yeah, I just don't think forcing people to use gamecube and/or classic controllers is very nice.  360 and/or PS3 could always add a gun controller too, like that Time Crisis thing that uses sensors.  That's PS3 only, though.

Anyway, I completely agree with the highlighted segment.  I too will go to sleep.  Same timezone...ugh. 

@Windbane
Drats, I'm too late. Oh well, I gave you more than enough trouble for one day so I'll be magnanimous and ignore the juicy counter-arguments I would have for this thread.

On topic
What's the big deal here? Another game whose development started when the Wii was being ignored by 3rd parties isn't on the Wii. Why is this surprising again? I agree with whoever it was who said the surprising thing is they got SC:Legends up so quickly. This is an odd generation, I don't think 3rd parties ever guessed this badly before the consoles launched.

ckmlb said: kber81 said: Legend11 said: Avinash_Tyagi said: Yeah that's really helped the 360 and PS3 so far, face it the games that most third parties make do not appeal to the new blue ocean that Ninty is in, they're dinosaurs fighting in the red ocean Well if that blue ocean is minigames and the like then I'll be more than happy sticking with the red ocean. Damn true. Same here.  I third that...

Fourthed.

Mario Strikers, MP3, SMGalaxy, FF:CC:CB, DQ: Swords, Manhunt 2, Ghost Squad, RE:UC and SSBB, FTW. 

Wow. I can't believe Soul Calibur led to this type of "console war" thread. Soul Calibur is not a big enough franchise to really impact the console wars. On average, its a sub-1 million seller, and at best, its a sub-2 million seller.

Far more interesting is that Namco's actually important fighter, Tekken, is a PS3 exclusive. Even though Tekken 5 bombed compared to earlier versions, Tekken 6 should have an impact on PS3 sales.

And people need to stop looking to established franchises to judge who is winning in terms of game announcements. So far, the 3 biggest games of the generation are Wii Sports, Gears of War, and Wii Play. New IPs. Just because Soul Calibur is an established franchise that plays to "hardcore" gamers doesn't mean its going to sell more than an ultra-casual new IP like My Word Coach. Now if you'd prefer to "stick in the red ocean," go ahead. Personally, I'd much rather play SCIV than My Word Coach too. But in a "console war" discussion, don't pretend like that matters at all.

And seeing that we are in the "gaming discussion" forums, some discussion of the game might be nice. And by "discussion," I mean "rampant speculation." Like... Kratos for the PS3 version?

ckmlb said: RolStoppable said: Excellent, the next great beat'em up franchise after Virtua Fighter that is going to hit platforms with userbases that can't or don't want to support such a game enough to turn back a healthy profit for the publisher. Pure assumption, though is it that far off from reality? If DOA 4 sold that well on 360 you don't think Soul Calibur can? please... Also, is every game gonna have to be held back graphically so that it gets released on the weaker Wii? So far my theory stands that no top of the line big 3rd party games are coming for Wii and are staying on 360/PS3 being released for both.

 Do you have proof that developers will hold back to make the Wii look good? No developer has yet. Multiplatform games with weak graphics had that because the developers weren't doing a good job, period.

 And what you are forgetting is that Nintendo has put no graphical minimums on the Wii, while any PS3 and 360 game must have at least 720p support. That means that any game WILL be more detailed on the other systems, since their minimum is greater than the Wii's power.

 So your supposition is completely false.

 If they do decide to make it on the Wii, THEY WON'T DOWNGRADE THE GRAPHICS ON THE OTHER SYSTEMS. They will keep them as they are and only downgrade the graphics on the Wii version.

 If they do otherwise, that will just mean they lost their touch, as the series has always maintaned a high graphical standard. Loosing their touch would happen even without the Wii.

davygee said: naznatips said: Bullcrap. Odin Sphere looks a helluva lot better than anything I have seen from the 360 or PS3. Not even CLOSE. Art and graphics aren't even related past a certain point. IMO the PS3 and 360 passed this point. As for the constantly crap games because they sell argument, that's hardly how developers work. Obviously you will get a lot of crap to sort through but developers shift focus to money pretty fast. Look at what happened with Ubisoft. They ported 2 crap games, they sold well, then they pretty much shifted their entire company to Wii development. I'm not saying the Wii WONT get crap, I'd say the PS2 is proof enough that the leader console will always get lots of crap, but there will likely by more good games than you can ever afford if you take the time to sort through the crap. No going by the games being developed over the next year or so. Check out the list below: Wii Cosmic Family Driver: Parallel Lines Brothers in Arms: Double Time Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 Beowulf Alive The Dog Island Lost Petz Prince of Persia Next Gen 360 Blazing Angels 2: Secret Missions America's Army: True Soldiers Assassin's Creed Naruto: Rise of a Ninja Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway Beowulf Alive Haze Lost Shaun White Snowboarding Splinter Cell: Conviction Prince of Persia Next Gen Tom Clancy's End War PS3 Rainbow Six: Vegas GRAW 2 Blazing Angels 2: Secret Missions Assassin's Creed Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway Beowulf Haze Alive Shaun White Snowboarding Tom Clancy's End War Lost Prince of Persia Next Gen

 This is an incomplete list by the way.  Ubisoft I know has way more games in the works.  I mean this company is a lot bigger than this list throws it off to be.  So it's definetly incomplete.