To be clear, I wasn't actually serious about spoiling anything. I haven't watched the game, but I've read most of the spoilers already so no big loss. I just figured it'd be good to point it out before someone really uptight about that sort of thing made a big stink about it.

OT, I don't know if they'll ever be considered as "fun" in the traditional sense as other games, but like anything else I think there's a place for games that have messages like these.

I totally lost execution. ^^;

The problem is that most movies - and most games - that try to tackle tough issues usually end up sucking, for various reasons. For one, people get far more outraged and shocked at seeing something on a screen than they do reading something. Moving visual media is far more intense and graphic to our minds than print-based media like books, or even still media like paintings and photographs, so people tend to react more strongly to the former. (See, for example, the recent outrage over Luc Bernard's Holocaust game for the DS; if he had done a bunch of still paintings on the same subject, no one would be outraged, but because it's a video game, apparently it's too controversial to release here in the States.) Thus, movie- and game-makers are afraid to take chances for fear of offending large swaths of people.

Now, Rockstar, for one, can get away with controversial themes like crime and violence in the GTA games because they can deflect any criticism with, "whoa, just a game here, folks. Not meant to be taken seriously." Game-makers tackling serious issues can't do the same, and neither can movie-makers.

You mentioned Reign Over Me, and that was honestly one of the few movies I've ever walked out of - not only because Adam Sandler's terrible acting ruined the entire movie, but also because they pulled far too many punches with the subject matter, making for a movie that was just sort of bland. However, there have been movies out there that have both tackled serious issues and been interesting enough to keep the viewer hooked - Schindler's List is the one that immediately comes to mind. In fact, that movie alone opened the door for movies to tackle all sorts of serious issues. But the universal quality that all good movies about those issues share is that they're hard-hitting, even brutal, with their subject matter. They don't fear showing things how they really are.

But, really, video games as a medium have a lot more issues to tackle before they can even reach that point. For one, the industry needs to get people to take games seriously as an expressive medium - an issue which the slew of mindless FPS's, RPGs, and action games released each month isn't helping at all. Now, not every game needs to be the equivalent to Citizen Kane, but gamers need to stop touting these mindless games as the pinnacle of the medium. It says something when a great many gamers consider Metal gear Solid's story to be deep, when in reality it's the equivalent to your average Tarantino film - slick, stylish, fun, somewhat pretentious, but only skin-deep. Is that really what we want to be satisfied with?

Yeah, I lost execution too. I still don't know how to win.

The question on my mind is, is fun a consideration? Should these kinds of games shoot for being entertaining? When we think "game" with think entertainment, but really the term "videogame" can become a misnomer in this case. Eventually "interactive media" may actually become a more suitable term. Trying to feed a family for 4 years in haiti may not be fun or entertaining, and thereby not really a game, but it can serve it's purpose in opening your eyes to the extreme poverty they undergo. Food Force may show the underlying complexities of trying to distribute food to famine filled countries, but it probably won't be a "game" in the traditional sense.

In order for these sorts of games (sorry, still going to use the term for now) to take root, the definition of what a videogame is and can be must be broadened so that we don't spend 5 minutes wondering around as an immigrant boy and saying "this is boring, screw it" and moving on to decapitating people online while hurling racial slurs in Gears Of War 5. I think honestly Nintendo is helping with this by both widening the market, but also attempting to change the definition of "gaming". Microsoft seems to be trying to help as well by providing funding and incentives.

I would honestly love to see games like this featured on PSN, or Wiiware, or the Xbox equivalent (sorry, I don't have a 360), for modest fees. That would definately get them more attention, and hopefully some talent and money would get behind them to make something that will be able to challenge traditional gamers way of thinking about the medium, as well as potentially the world outside of the living room.

That was an interesting read, and it's good to have discussions about these issues. I've actually been lately thinking of videogames as a media, and how incredibly underutilized the opportunities of conveying ideas and stories actually currently are. It's frustrating that most of the energy is put on developing ever better graphics/physics or even gameplay to an extent, while at the same time aspects of one's responsibility of one's actions and their consequences is all but totally neglected. If half of the resources put on graphics would have been put on development of an emotional AI, would we see game characters who react to our actions with emotional responses that don't feel out of place? Would we be able to model different personalities in games and interact with them in a way that would not let us escape the consequences of our actions? How could the concept of Execution be widened and applied in other games?

Drawing an analogue to movies, there are different kinds of movies for different purposes. Some are meant to entertain, some are meant to provoke thoughts, some are meant to just provoke. Others succeed better, others worse. Why can't the same hold for games? True, games tend to be fun, or rather we tend to like to play games, but honestly, how entertaining is it to play a game of chess or go? It's not such a big leap actually to accept that games in general, and video games in particular, can be used to convey any kind of messages. That would be a step into perhaps the teenage years of video gaming.

In my opinion, books and movies are on par, meaning that movie makers have learned to use the possibilities of the media to convey messages that are of similar quality, on the same level as books. The critical measure is the ability to provoke emotional responses other than momentary panic. The Adversary is one of the most depressing movies that I have ever seen, yet I consider it to be a great movie. I don't know if I would have the strength to see it again even though it's maybe 5 years since I saw it: the emotional response it evoked was so strong that it still carries to this day. In contrast, the experiences that even the best of games offer are just lame. Not a single game I have played has offered emotional experiences that would have lasted. Consider for a moment The Return of the Jedi, hardly a masterpiece of deep emotional and thought provoking storytelling, yet the moment when Luke understands that in order to defeat the evil he must give in to the evil within himself far surpasses pretty much anything the video game industry has to throw at the table.

I find that somewhat depressing, to be honest.

It is time for video games to mature, to grow into a media that can tell "respectable" stories and talk about issues that are neither fun nor easy. I believe it can be made in a way that retains the gaming aspect of the media, it just means that the stories told will have to be different from books and movies, just as movies are different from books and books are different from spoken stories.

The wii is doing a lot to diversify the gaming population, such that in future there may well be a viable market for such games. At the moment the typical gamer profile suggests not many would appreciate them.

Sadly, that's true. While written media has its Joyce, Kafka, and modern analogues, and movies have their art-house flicks, there's no equivalent in terms of games. We've seen some good attempts thus far (Planescape: Torment, Killer7, and Rez, just to name a few), but they've gone ignored by nearly everybody, and there's not nearly enough to even begin to develop a sub-culture around.

What we really need is more art-house development studios. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Luc Bernard's studio and Grasshopper Manufacture; the first has yet to develop a game, period, and the second has yet to develop a commercially successful game.

In other words, things ain't looking good.

It reminds me of a game we had to play in gradeschool about how being slaves in the south and how tough and horrible it was to escape.

Was one of those text based games...

I kinda missed the point of it back then... as I kicked it's ass and got to Canada on the first try.

Going through rivers to throw dogs off my sent, using pepper. Almost got caught hiding in someones barn once.

Wha can I say i was a born gamer i guess.

Seriously though... I think games could even be fun and educational. The only problem is that people are afraid of making educational games like this fun because they are afraid it will cheapen peoples suffering.

Which really, i doubt people give a damn about their suffering being cheapened just as long as it reaches people who are willing to make a difference.