By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Church of England considers legal action against Sony

steverhcp02 said:
Kytiara said:
I personally feel that the people creating the game should have gotten explicit permission to use that building if they wanted to. A church is not a public building, it is someones property (I guess of the congregation?). How would you like it if someone made a replica of your house and used it as a scene for a grisly murder game if you were against violence?

In this case, I don't think copywrite has anything to do with it. The church is saying they did not give permission to use their church in the game. Just because their doors are open and everyone is welcome to come inside doesn't mean you can move in and do whatever you like inside.

 errrrr, videogames are teh reelz?


errrrr, did I say they were?  How about someone recreates your house and makes a game about abusing little kids inside it?



Around the Network
ssj12 said:
FishyJoe said:
Gballzack said:
If the contents of the church's interior are considered public domain in that they are no secret, then arguable using them in a production shouldn't be illegal, at least not by US laws.

Just because you allow guests onto your property does not make it public domain. You can't go into a building and publish photographs of the inside without the owners permission.


 why you havent been banned beyond me, you post nothing but negative towards sony products. 

Is it illegal to find the old version of the church ie 1954 look and recreate it. The copyright if there is one cant legal stand that long. The outside shell shouldnt be able to be argued against if so GTA4 is screwed since they recreated all of New York and they didnt ask permission. Even if they call each place a different name they are using the exact building structure for each building.  


It has nothing to do with a copyright and everything to do with respecting private property.  Obviously Sony asked them if they could use the church and based on this lawsuit the church obviously said no.  So why didn't Sony just use a pretend church?



FishyJoe said:
JSF said:
If someone puts out a comic book where fictional superhero characters (such as Spiderman) have a fictional fistfight inside the Empire State Building, and the artist did his research and depicts the setting just like the real thing, they should be sued?

Should they or could they sue are two different questions. Theoretically I think it could be possible. Realistically from a PR and financial standpoint, it would probably be terrible.


 Okay, let me present another example.  What if I am writing a book and I have a few chapters to take place in the Empire State Building.  In establishing the setting, I describe the lobby in exact detail.  Can I be sued?



ssj12 said:
FishyJoe said:
Gballzack said:
If the contents of the church's interior are considered public domain in that they are no secret, then arguable using them in a production shouldn't be illegal, at least not by US laws.

Just because you allow guests onto your property does not make it public domain. You can't go into a building and publish photographs of the inside without the owners permission.


why you havent been banned beyond me, you post nothing but negative towards sony products.

Is it illegal to find the old version of the church ie 1954 look and recreate it. The copyright if there is one cant legal stand that long. The outside shell shouldnt be able to be argued against if so GTA4 is screwed since they recreated all of New York and they didnt ask permission. Even if they call each place a different name they are using the exact building structure for each building.


Read ANY of my messages in this thread. NONE have been negative to Sony. All I have done is point out that there could possibly be legal merit for the case. Go ahead and show me something that I have said that deserves banning. 

Taking photos of the exterior of a building is legal, because you are doing so from public domain, the street. Doing so from the interior of a building is different, because it is private property. Many paparazzi have been sued because they have taken photographs on private property without permission.



JSF said:
FishyJoe said:
JSF said:
If someone puts out a comic book where fictional superhero characters (such as Spiderman) have a fictional fistfight inside the Empire State Building, and the artist did his research and depicts the setting just like the real thing, they should be sued?

Should they or could they sue are two different questions. Theoretically I think it could be possible. Realistically from a PR and financial standpoint, it would probably be terrible.


Okay, let me present another example. What if I am writing a book and I have a few chapters to take place in the Empire State Building. In establishing the setting, I describe the lobby in exact detail. Can I be sued?


If you made detailed plans of the layout, I think it might be possible.

For example, say I'm a home builder. I just made this house where people just love the layout. A  writer comes by and draws plans of the layout and publishes it and makes a lot of money. Do you think I should be able to sue the writer?



Around the Network
ssj12 said:
FishyJoe said:
Gballzack said:
If the contents of the church's interior are considered public domain in that they are no secret, then arguable using them in a production shouldn't be illegal, at least not by US laws.

Just because you allow guests onto your property does not make it public domain. You can't go into a building and publish photographs of the inside without the owners permission.


why you havent been banned beyond me, you post nothing but negative towards sony products.

Is it illegal to find the old version of the church ie 1954 look and recreate it. The copyright if there is one cant legal stand that long. The outside shell shouldnt be able to be argued against if so GTA4 is screwed since they recreated all of New York and they didnt ask permission. Even if they call each place a different name they are using the exact building structure for each building.


Good point, Ssj, but this isn't what I understand the developers did. My understanding -- correct me if I'm wrong -- is that they went inside the Church, took pictures of it, then recreated it in the game. Again, If I'm wrong, please correct me.

And  Gballzack: no, the church is not public domain. It can't be. It's owned by the Church of England. Separation of Church and State is applicable there too :p 

I  



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

JSF said:
FishyJoe said:
JSF said:
If someone puts out a comic book where fictional superhero characters (such as Spiderman) have a fictional fistfight inside the Empire State Building, and the artist did his research and depicts the setting just like the real thing, they should be sued?

Should they or could they sue are two different questions. Theoretically I think it could be possible. Realistically from a PR and financial standpoint, it would probably be terrible.


Okay, let me present another example. What if I am writing a book and I have a few chapters to take place in the Empire State Building. In establishing the setting, I describe the lobby in exact detail. Can I be sued?


If the plans are detailed enough, you absolutely can. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

I don't think they have a case. Even if they took pictures to recreate the graphics later. Even if it looks 99.9% perfect, it is still just a likeness. Just like how South Park can use Paris Hilton or Tom Cruise. Now they wouldn't be allowed to recreate any logos belonging to the church, but they can replace them with something pretty easily.
I don't believe that there is any precedent for a lawsuit. Perhaps in movies? We are talking about a recreation not based around a corporate brand.



Well, I know for sure Hannibal Lecter has killed a lot of people in his books in a lot of very real places. For example, in the novel "Hannibal", he gutted and hung a crooked cop off the Palazzo della Signoria.  Nothing anyone could do about that.



I've been doing a bit of digging on this issue, and I've discovered that cartoons that depict real places are basically never prosecuted, while most movies (with real footage) can be and have been prosecuted.

What this suggests -- from a laymen's perspective -- is that level of detail is important. If you just make some vague depiction of the interior that really looks very little like the actual, then you're in the clear. If it's a literal moving film of the inside, then you can get in trouble. What about something in between, like Resistance? It's not literally a real depiction, but it's precise, accurate, and deliberately as close to the real as possible. I'm not sure if that's legal or not, but it doesn't sound like the church is making an absurd claim here. They may lose, but it doesn't look like they should get laughed out of court or anything. This is right on the cusp of legality. 

Again, disclaimer: this is just 30 minutes of research and logic. I'm not an expert.  



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">