Rubang B said:
 That would explain Deism!   Anybody here see the Monty Python bit where the news headlines are all: "God is dead! ... and he was really short!" and then the rest of the bit is the whole world laughing at how short God was when they bury his body? |
No, though I gotta look that up. What was that from an episode of flying circus?

| Rath said: Ok Ripper lets assume your correct and God exists, so many different religions say that anybody that doesnt believe in their version of God goes to hell automatically that even if you are right your still going to hell, because Allah or Zeus or Ra said so, thus not believing in God just saves a lot of time. |
Haven't played many RPGS eh? It's the same as in some of the best RPGs. The heroes have less then a 1% chance of saving the day and it's likely they are going to end up in a ruined world until they die, or just die. So why do they take that less the 1% shot? Cause a 1 in a million shot is still better then no shot at all. Perhaps nobody can say what's going to happen when all the chips are down, but one thing is obvious. If all your chips are down on the roulette wheel you may as well play a number anyway.

There is no scientifically rigorous evidence to support any of the many different religious beliefs in this world. (Personal human perception is entirely unreliable, but gets most people every time, there's a good article in a recent New Scientist on how easily the mind is tricked)
As Dawkins said, we're all Atheists, some of us just go one god further than the rest.
There is no god, I think even a lot of religious people secretly feel this is true.
Some might argue that I can't know the universe wasn't created by some intelligence. It's true I can't know, but neither can they know it was created by some intelligence. Given the lack of evidence for such an intelligence, I consider atheism a more reasonable position to take.
Even if there was a greater intelligence that was somehow responsible for the universe's existence, there's no evidence that it has any regard for us, or that any of the religions have any idea about it at all.
We (humans) don't need god. We're entirely capable of being decent and good to each other in every good way that a religion would 'require' without needing to invent some mythical overseer that will punish us with hell (or whatever) should we treat one another badly.
I'd much rather take credit for my behaviour and our amazing place in the universe than hand it over to some imaginary being.
Ok then let me make up a rule that you have to climb onto your roof every second wednesday to go to heaven. It doesnt cost you anything does it? (Well time I guess, but far less than church)
So why don't you do it? Because it seems so blatantly absurd that climbing onto your roof is going to help you in your afterlife that you wouldnt waste your time. I feel the same way about religion.

Define god.
If god is a superman living in the clouds who constantly watches all your activities and constantly judges you on them using a certain narrowly defined set of Good and Evils throughout your life and then proceeds to determine if you go in pile A or pile B for some long duration of time based on mathematical calculations that are never fully disclosed then haply you're god more than likely fails to exist.
If instead you consider god to merely be an omnipotent being, well you're in luck since by current definition the universe itself is omnipotent and the universe certainly exists.
@flagship, the universe has a finite amount of energy (whether free or conserved in mass) and as such cannot be defined as omnipotent.
It probably isnt omnipresent either as it has an edge (which has been detected) which suggests a finite boundary, of course once you get into quantum and the superstring theory there are something like 10 dimensions so Im not so certain about omnipresence. (as I dont understand quantum or the superstring theory XD)

Lets think about how Christianity started and how it was spread. 12 people that knew Jesus personally went out and spread the world. It was their personal relationship with him that won them over, and eventually much of the world. It really is faith, but once you believe you know. It is people sharing their personal faith in Jesus that has won 2.1 billion hearts. There is no opression like you see in other faiths where people are forced to believe under penalty of death. I like logic, but that isn't what wins over peoples hearts, its supernatural.
ripper, ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades? Blasphemy laws?
Only in the modern world has one been able to speak out against Christianity, it was spread by the sword.
In any case the only religion which you could currently say is conversion by force is Islam, and that only occurs in a few states and is basically there to give credence to a dictator. For a good example of a secular state with an Islamic majority see Turkey.

| ripper said: Lets think about how Christianity started and how it was spread. 12 people that knew Jesus personally went out and spread the world. It was their personal relationship with him that won them over, and eventually much of the world. It really is faith, but once you believe you know. It is people sharing their personal faith in Jesus that has won 2.1 billion hearts. There is no opression like you see in other faiths where people are forced to believe under penalty of death. I like logic, but that isn't what wins over peoples hearts, its supernatural. |
Well I wasn't won over by supernatural, I was won over by logic and science, as it has provided me with all the amazing things I see around me every day. I have hope that more and more people will see this to be true in the coming generations and that one day we will finally relegate religion to a historical paradigm. But you're right, people want to believe, just look at all those morons practicing witchcraft, paganism and christianity everywhere
(they're all the same to me :)