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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Getting a Powerhouse Gaming PC for $656 –Full Crysis Capability

Squilliam said:
Grampy said:
Squilliam said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, the stock powersupply in that machine was 230w.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371005 - 34A 12v rails, 380w

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052 -29A 12v rails 500w.

Both are good brands and both are rated at 5 eggs. I would pick the Antec over the thermaltake one.

230 watt oem is all too common and I still see some 200s but I don't think there's any excuse for it. Still, I suppose 90% never add anything so it works out. I agree Antec makes some good units. My personal favorite is Zalman but the tend to be pricey.


Zalman make some of the quietest High wattage PSU's out there. I've seen a ZM-850hp I think on several reviews and it didnt even register on the Decibel sensor until it was well into a 400w load. Silence is golden.

What my point was, is that the high wattage PSU actually provided fewer useful watts than was indicated vs the Antec even though it was rated 120w higher. Now correct my if im wrong, but the main components of the computer run off those 12v rails. CPU/GPU so the Antec had essentially 120w less rated power but only 60w less useful power. It was also high efficiency.

230w is actually fine, unless you upgrade. With the efficient 65w Athlons anyway and 1 HDD 1 DVD writer etc you could even sneak a 6 series GPU like the 2600pro into it without worry.


I wouldn't disagree with anything you said. My personal experience has been that the extra reliability of having at least 50% extra capaciy is worth the few dollars. I know others that just add up the power reqirements of each component and buy just enough of a power supply to cover them. Aparently their experience has been different.

 



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I cannot help that the test results are for older games. The AMD 64x2 series came out a few years ago and of course reviews and technical reports are done on products when they are first released.

I also posted results reported by a gamer playing more recent games although I have no way of knowing if his testing was as rigerous as the laboratory bench test.



For my next PC I have already bought an Enermax Pandora case, a Cooler Master 400W PSU with a big silent fan, silent fans for the case and dust filters, I'll make all the fans excepted the PSU's one blow air inside, while all the air will go out through the PSU. Now I want low power consumption components, so a mobo with onboard AMD 780G graphics, fast enough for most games older than 1.5 yrs and so good for all my games till next year, as I'm far behind playing all the games I would like, with it I'll be OK for enough time to wait for a much faster, but economic, silent and low power GPU to be released when I'll want or need to upgrade it. Regarding the CPU, an Athlon 64 X2 4850e should be fast and cool enough, I'll consider a quad core for upgrade when they'll be cheaper and will offer at least 2.6GHz for low end models, so that worst case performances with SW unable to use more than one core won't be slower than those with a current mid range dual core (that's still the best for most unoptimized SW).

Taking into account the components I've already bought I should stay within 400€ (~$620), so even after a graphics card upgrade (next year medium-low end should be faster, cheaper and cooler than current medium-high end) I should stay comfortably within 500€ (~$780).



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


I'm sorry, I am working on a book and need to put my time towards that. I will be very happy to answer any technical QUESTIONS.

I expect and respect the fact that there are other OPINIONS about computers and components. If you have a different take on things then please post your alternative along with a source and current prices and readers can choose for themselves.

I just don't have time to debate the merits of each and every component. I've given my OPINION backed with what test results that were available. Please share your ideas.



difference between a quality 50 and 100 dollar mobo for most users is minimal at best

the 100 dollar one will have more features that a power user will tend to use.

my current rig is using a 45 dollar mobo- typically i used an asus mobo that was ~100 but i wanted to see if i could get reliable use with less money.

IF you have a good case with a power supply that has all the latest connectors a "brand new" computer can and will cost under 300 dollars.

as for ram unless you are using a 64bit linux/xp64/vista64 anything over 3.5 gig of ram is pretty much useless- you can install it fine, but usually with a latest gpu you can use just under 3.5gig..if you have sli even less..2 512meg 8800gts's in sli= 3gig max system memory you can use.

WHY?

because 32bit os's can use 4gig max... and your gpu/bios ram is included in that total.


a QUALITY build that will run crysis at max will run you no more than 600 dollars-if you choose wisely and recycle older parts that are still good and do not need replacing.

as for ram, just pick the least expensive name brand with a lifetime warranty,. its about 65-80bucks for 4gig or under 40 for 2gig. the Difference between the basic ram and the high end overclocked expensive stuff has been tested to mean a difference of less than 4%..



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Grampy said:
Squilliam said:
Grampy said:
Squilliam said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, the stock powersupply in that machine was 230w.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371005 - 34A 12v rails, 380w

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052 -29A 12v rails 500w.

Both are good brands and both are rated at 5 eggs. I would pick the Antec over the thermaltake one.

230 watt oem is all too common and I still see some 200s but I don't think there's any excuse for it. Still, I suppose 90% never add anything so it works out. I agree Antec makes some good units. My personal favorite is Zalman but the tend to be pricey.


Zalman make some of the quietest High wattage PSU's out there. I've seen a ZM-850hp I think on several reviews and it didnt even register on the Decibel sensor until it was well into a 400w load. Silence is golden.

What my point was, is that the high wattage PSU actually provided fewer useful watts than was indicated vs the Antec even though it was rated 120w higher. Now correct my if im wrong, but the main components of the computer run off those 12v rails. CPU/GPU so the Antec had essentially 120w less rated power but only 60w less useful power. It was also high efficiency.

230w is actually fine, unless you upgrade. With the efficient 65w Athlons anyway and 1 HDD 1 DVD writer etc you could even sneak a 6 series GPU like the 2600pro into it without worry.


I wouldn't disagree with anything you said. My personal experience has been that the extra reliability of having at least 50% extra capaciy is worth the few dollars. I know others that just add up the power reqirements of each component and buy just enough of a power supply to cover them. Aparently their experience has been different.

 


The base system probably wouldn't draw more than 120watts at full load anyway. So the PSU would be extremely reliable in that environment. Without a professional oems experience it pays to err on the safe side. Unless you understand what you're doing you wont know if you're overloading one of your rails. The only thing I could expect is that the machine is capable of supporting a 75watt or less GPU that doesn't require extra power. The specifications demand this, but they don't demand much more.

My personal experience when I thought I knew more than I do now. I had 4 HDDs, 2 Optical drives, multiple usb devices and I decided to add just one more Optical drive to my unknowingly critically overloaded cheap PSU. It blew up straight away and took my motherboard with it. I still don't understand WHY, or which rail I blew but I know that it was my fault for having the cheap PSU and it was also my fault for assuming that I can just add things Willy Nilly. That was only a year and a half ago and I learnt so much from those two acts of stupidity.

Overcompensation is an excellent supstitution for stupidity and ignorance. Hence the reason why everyone gets a PSU thats wayyy bigger than they need. Its simply safer. Taking a bad bet and winning is not a good reason to go ahead and take another bad bet. God I wish more people would understand that fact.  

In summary, keep it in the motherboard spec - no extra power connectors and you're fine. Move away from spec and start adding HDD's/Optical drives etc, upgrade to something decent. Not all manufacturers are kind enough to tell you the maximum power on each rail.

 



Tease.

Grampy said:

You are welcome to disagree but I am quite confident it will unless you are trying to run it a a high sceen resolution. Almost all testing on games is done at 640 x 480 and I base it on that. If you want everything on at 1280 x 1024 say, then no you will need dual video cards.

Actually I am not a graphic designer I am in medical research imaging to support things like 5 dimensional fluorescent microscopy where a single experiment may produce 500 MB of images at a time. The work requires moving a lot of pixels as fast as possible and thus workstations that are essentially identical to a good gamer. (which they are occasionally used for after hours.

I was not trying to compete with the highest end Alienware $3k and up gamer. I said if you could afford one go get it. This was intended obviously at someone who had not built computers and was on a budget. What I suggested is actually extremly powerful compared to mainstream computers but I also listed a commercial gaming computer of essentially the same power for $999, only some $300 more expensive.

I'm sure that there are limitless other choices, there always are, but I don't think you will do much better for under $700. Thats my opinion, if you have something you like better, fine post it along with data to support it and people will be able to make their own choice.

 

Nah, I actually would probably build something like this myself. Its a good recipe for a great gaming pc. Normally for gaming I build something along the "high low end" and try to keep it under 700$. Really just a cheap PC with a kick ass gpu. The last time I built one was for Half Life 2, back in 2005. Im probably going to build a new gaming rig in the near future and it will probably end up very similiar to the build you posted The only thing I didnt agree with was the fact that it could run Crysis well. I dont think anyone plays PC games at 800x600 anymore, much less 640x480. Well...not alot of people. Id consider 1024x768 the base resolution nowadays. But thats just me.



PS360 ftw!

Currently playing..........

Gears of War 2, GTA IV Lost and Damned, Little Big Planet (Yes I said I had no interest but my girl wanted to try it and we did and now Im hooked )

 

 

lenardo1 said:
difference between a quality 50 and 100 dollar mobo for most users is minimal at best

the 100 dollar one will have more features that a power user will tend to use.

my current rig is using a 45 dollar mobo- typically i used an asus mobo that was ~100 but i wanted to see if i could get reliable use with less money.

IF you have a good case with a power supply that has all the latest connectors a "brand new" computer can and will cost under 300 dollars.

as for ram unless you are using a 64bit linux/xp64/vista64 anything over 3.5 gig of ram is pretty much useless- you can install it fine, but usually with a latest gpu you can use just under 3.5gig..if you have sli even less..2 512meg 8800gts's in sli= 3gig max system memory you can use.

WHY?

because 32bit os's can use 4gig max... and your gpu/bios ram is included in that total.


a QUALITY build that will run crysis at max will run you no more than 600 dollars-if you choose wisely and recycle older parts that are still good and do not need replacing.

as for ram, just pick the least expensive name brand with a lifetime warranty,. its about 65-80bucks for 4gig or under 40 for 2gig. the Difference between the basic ram and the high end overclocked expensive stuff has been tested to mean a difference of less than 4%..

One question, since a lower cost motherboard tends to have cheaper components and simpler heat sinks, am I correct in saying that a cheaper motherboard has less tolerance for being dicked around on? I.E Overclocking or case temperatures that are too high. I spose hence the reason for the quality case/PSU because with them the temperatures are lower. Maybe its best to say spend on a solid case/psu to lay the foundation so you don't have to compensate with an expensive motherboard.

My computer im building cost me $300 and thats with a copy of Vista and a new case, motherboard and CPU, simply because I got cheap deals and I reused old parts.



Tease.

This article is a good example of why I like many aspects of console gaming better.

Yea, from a purist point of view, PC gaming is better. From a "my dick is bigger then your dick" point of view, I will stick with Consoles.



I should have checked this out earlier but I went to Tom’s hardware and found that they had already tested the GeForce 8800GT on Crysis and the results are actually better than my estimates.

For the GeForce 8800 GT 512MB (as I specified)

1600 x 1200

Medium Settings35.5
1900x1440Medium Settings26.3
1600 x 1200AA4X24.4
1920x1440AA4X6.5

So for those of you worried about playing Crysis, by my standards it would play it very well indeed

Several people advocated the Geforce 8800 GTS but there testing indicates that this would  be a bad choice

For the GeForce  8800 GTS 320 MB

1600 x 1200

Medium Settings26.3
1900x1440Medium Settings16
1600 x 1200AA4X0
1920x1440AA4X0

Their conclusion:

It's not a surprise, Crysis doesn't bring major changes in the hierarchy, but confirms the 8800GT's performances, which are only really outgrown in 1600 x 1200 + filters, although 512 MB are still enough for the HD 2900 XT which doesn't collapse under this mode. The Radeon manages to reach beyond our expectations being only 10 to 15% lower than the 8800GT on other resolutions. The 8800GTS 320 MB doesn't allow for comfortable play in 1280 x 1024 in High Quality, and you should almost abandon the idea of running this game on an 8600 GTS!

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-8800-gt,1714-13.html

Their overall conclusion on the Geforce 8800 GT

Conclusion

In the end, Nvidia has taken its time, but offers an exceptional card with the GeForce 8800GT Compare Prices on GeForce 8800GT Video Cards. For about $230 it nearly displays the power of a GeForce 8800GTX (under 3%) twice as expensive, with the only downside being a slightly lower memory capacity (512 MB instead of 768 MB) and a bandwidth 10% lower than that of a GeForce 8800GTS. However, in games, the latter is usually outperformed by 30% without filters (using the 320 MB version) by the GeForce 8800GT and the GTX is only 12% higher. We have to say that the transition to the 65 nm process meant the arrival of more than just a couple of G92 on a wafer. By the way, this chip boasts 754 million transistors.

It's small, consumes less than a GeForce 8800GTS 320 MB, and the 8800GT is also quite silent despite its single slot cooling system. As a matter of fact, the only objective criticism that you can make today is that it has taken such a long time to arrive, because in the mean time, Nvidia inflicted us with its GeForce 8600 which aren't mid-range cards for gamers according to us, forcing us to side with the 8800GTS 320 MB, and that's in another price range.. This is however old news and it's all good, especially when you see how demanding this quarter's games are, with Crysis leading the way.

 It's hard however, to finish this review without dropping a line on the fact that AMD's response (Radeon HD 3000) will launch in two and a half weeks, and that even if the 8800GT can't be made into a bad deal, we still need to see what the Canadians have in store for us. 

The GeForce 8800GT is the mid-range card that we've been waiting for, the honorable replacement of the GeForce 3 Ti 200 or GeForce 4 Ti 4400, with its performances easily outclassing those of a 8800GTS for a much lower price. 

We give the Nvidia GeForce 8800GT our Best Bang for the Buck Award.

 Positives
Excellent performance/price ratio
Decreasing power consumption
Silence
card's dimensions
PureVideo 2

 Negatives
Why didn't it offer such a card earlier?

My Conclusion is the NEW EGG MONSTER as specified is one kick ass gamer machine and a good bit better than my conservative estimates. It will eat Crysis for lunch without blinking an eye. That’s a lot for under $700. I may actually have to build one of these for myself.

Disclaimer: Tom’s Hardware was done with a platform using a CPU with approximately a 21% faster clock speed but with 2GB instead of 4 GB of RAM. Because games are usually limited more by GPU than CPU and with the extra memory I would expect the difference in performance in actual gaming would be very minimal.

CPU

Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850
(FYI: similar to the E6850 in games)
MotherboardAsus P5K3 Deluxe
MemoryKingston 2 x 1024 MB
setup in DDR-3 800 6-6-6-15-21
Hard DriveHitachi T7K250 250 GB
DVD-ROMDVD Player Asus 12x
Power SupplyTagan U15 Easycon 530 W