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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will Ninty lose the war if Sony & M$ develop similar or better controller?

Final-Fan said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
macross said:

It looks like Nintendo going to fail by its own. Both of the company Sony and Microsoft focusing(copying) on the controller now. Will Nintendo lose the war because it lacks of support on the other side beside controller? Will Sony and Microsoft regain their market share again?

[...]

This is not the war of HD or SD, this not the war of Next-Gen, This is the War of Controller.

Nope, afterthoughts almost never pay, especially in a case like this, where developers should start to learn making a good use of a new feature, that, what's worst, is optional. Sony and MS are right trying, but they'll gather benefits next gen, not this one.
The only thing that gives nonstandard controllers any chance of becoming attractive for developers is being attached to a ridiculously successful game that will put it into the hands of a substantial portion of console owners. Wii Fit is such a game. I don't think that Banjo-Kazooie is.

Microsoft might be able to improve their odds by bundling their remote with more than one game or giving some sort of enticements to third parties, but I don't know if they're that determined to get this new controller into the maximum possible amount of 360 homes. As for Sony, I have serious doubts as to whether there is anything behind those rumors. The picture I saw is clearly a joke.

 

Right, and the chances this gen are very, very low. Nevertheless it could be useful to both Sony and MS to start early gaining experience on the field about this matter, to avoid being caught unprepared again when next gen comes.



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TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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Squilliam said:
Viper1 said:
Ssyn said:
Viper1 said:
This is further validates Wii as competition, a trend setter and as a software development platform.

MS/Sony seem to want to dilute and unfocus their market by going "metoo" which tells developers that motion controls are apparently what everybody wants.
Which is terrible because I and I'm dead postive alot more poeple prefer normal controllers to a TV remote you swing around like a moron.

 

And I think a lot more people are tired of bashing buttons like a moron. See how that works?

 

JaggedSac said:

"If thats so...then please tell me why aren't most wii games we have seen thus far hardcore titles that require accuracy and quick gameplay movements? Or why my little sister throws harder in boom blox by flicking her wrist compared to me who can throw a pretty decent fastball? Accuracy indeed...

I'm sorry but I've played MOH2 and Metroid 3 and while the controls do the job...they are not as good or as accurate as a regular controller due to lack of dual analogs. The whole tilt wii mote to the left if you want to turn left doesn't work for me...

The only game I've played that was better with wiimote was RE4...and that game was godly on the wii. Wiimote + 1 on that one... "

Spot on old chap.

 

"Wii Fit is such a game. I don't think that Banjo-Kazooie is. "

 

I wouldn't call WiiFit a game by any stretch of the imagination. I would rather have someone take a dump on my face for 10 minutes.

Such hostility and animosity towards a game. Yes, a "game". Does it threaten you? Does your testosterone charged masculine ego cringe at the idea of an exercise game that can be fun and beneficial? Does your elitist Id want to hide in the darkest recesses of cognition to avoid its presence in your niche blood bathed Mature rated video game escape?

 

Why is Wii so abtruse to so many gamers? Why do they feel so threatened they resort to hyperbole and insults to demonstrate their disdain?

 

 


I would call my Encyclopedia Britanica cd a game to avoid having someone take a dump on my face for 10 minutes. You're harder than me, I salute you!!


 I shouldn't of said the swinging part because it threw poeople off from what I meant, motion controllers are fine but, I'd rather it not become so dominate that it degrades the future of normal games. The next gen is already doomed to be less better than it could of been due to the Wii's sucsess and I'd just be disappointing if it makes the current top end games stagnate thoughout most of the next generation.



"Why is Wii so abtruse to so many gamers? Why do they feel so threatened they resort to hyperbole and insults to demonstrate their disdain?"

Because I am insecure, petty, have a small johnson, and find humor in such antics.



Ssyn said:
 
 

 I shouldn't of said the swinging part because it threw poeople off from what I meant, motion controllers are fine but, I'd rather it not become so dominate that it degrades the future of normal games. The next gen is already doomed to be less better than it could of been due to the Wii's sucsess and I'd just be disappointing if it makes the current top end games stagnate thoughout most of the next generation.

If you've tried some of Wii's best games, you'll not the motion gestures are done in moderation, not overdose.   the endhance the gameplay, not replace it.

I could debate you heavily on the merits of your prognostication of the 8th generation of video games but I'll just add my own opinion.   The hardcore market isn't going away, the softcore market merely opened up.  This in no way suggest any demise for those interested solely in hardcore gaming.  The worry that gaming is somehow ruined is unfounded and unwarranted.

JaggedSac said:
"Why is Wii so abtruse to so many gamers? Why do they feel so threatened they resort to hyperbole and insults to demonstrate their disdain?"

Because I am insecure, petty, have a small johnson, and find humor in such antics.
A commendation for good showmanship and proper sarcasm.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Squilliam said:
pakidan101 said:

Source: http://malstrom.50webs.com/shield.htm, Portion of Malstrom's Shield article

 

-(Growth Driven) Co-option of the Disruption

After the disruptor proves the New Market does exist and is viable, incumbents attempt to mimic the disruptor in order to gain access to the New Market. This co-option is a counterattack that will stop the disruptor (for the disruptor loses the new market base to move to upper tiers). Unless the disruptor has no shield (asymmetries of motivation), or if the motivations of the disruptor and incumbent are the same, co-option will successfully prevail. An example of co-option would be incumbent telephone companies responding to wireless technology to sell it to new users. The incumbent missed much of the new growth but is eventually able to tap into the New Market. Since wireless had the same motivation as the incumbents, the disruptors had no shield and were absorbed.

In order to withstand counter attack, sufficient asymmetries of motivation must be developed for the disruptor (what Christensen refers to as the ‘shield’). For example, Microsoft can imitate the Wii with a Wii remote knockoff but the motivation for creating it is very different from Nintendo’s. Microsoft will not have the passion to go after non-users and low demanding consumers in the way Nintendo did. If the reader happens to be a professional analyst and needs translation, this means what matters now is no longer the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.

Microsofts motivation? They want to create a total multimedia package for people, sell it and make a lot of money. Essentially the same scenario as Nintendo except replace multimedia with just games.

WRONG. It's not at all the same. It's actually very far from the same, and it's the basis of the entire shield argument. The question is why MS didn't create a wiimote in the first place. The answer is they were trying to do something different. Microsoft is still looking to giving the customer what the customer wants (bigger, better, faster, stronger). Nintendo is looking to provide the customer with a new way to play games. Nintendo wanted to make the WiiMote an extension of the body. To improve the connection between the game and the person, the interface. This type of thinking does not exist within Microsoft at all, if it did, MS would have had a controller that actually differed from it's previous one.

Microsoft as a company is so successful because if you to make a program for personal computers you make it on their platform generally. They provide some of the best tools in the industry and we have heard time and again how much easier it is to program for their system that competitors. They act as a facilitator in partnership with third parties to create the compelling offerings they have in the marketplace. Windows is a prime example of this. Microsoft is a company that attempts to encompass all of the market, so to say that their motivations aren't aligned with providing something for everyone is crass.

Everything that the Wii can do, the Xbox360 can do. But not everything the Xbox360 can do the Wii can do. True. But Microsoft can't do everything that NINTENDO can do, because of the assymetries of motivation. Essentially the Xbox360 is more capable as a platform to deliver to more people than the Wii.But do people really care about that? The only difference is that the Wii leveraged an air-mouse with motion capabilities from the start whilst the Xbox360 did not. No, that's not what nintendo did. They offered a new way to play games. The only real improvement in the industry this generation. However, here is where the asynchronous capabilities come into play. Microsoft can leverage their dominance of the #1 Game platform in the world (PC) to make up for their slow start in this field. They can and will respond to the Wii. Heres some examples - The Sims - 100million sales, MMORPGs, Strategy games, online flash games, adventure games, puzzle games, first person shooters/RPG games that come from the PC and only do PC/Xbox360.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I decided to just paste one of Malstrom's argument as a suggestion, seeing as how I agree with this opinion. In this portion of the article, Malstrom gives three outcomes as to what the incumbents' console strategy (used by Sony and Microsoft) is and how the incumbents will react when the disrupter (Nintendo) uses a different strategy. I am showing this segment due to the fact that it relates to the topic of what will happen if Sony and MS decided to imitate Ninty in the controller aspect. If MS tries to make a Wii remote knockoff, they will prolly lack the motivation necessary to go any farther. Sure, a game or two will support it, but they won't have the motivation Nintendo has to push this kind of innovation into the users hand. Microsoft just doesn't have the fight in them to go that far because they have already invested a lot of time forming their image. Also, another part of Malstrom's argument to back up the argument as to why Sony and MS can't imitate the Wii remote:

Speculation on their motivations. Read above.

A reader says, “The incumbent can simply copy the innovation and stop the disruptor.”

Ahh, but reader, when the incumbent brings the innovation to its market, it never works the way the incumbent plans it.

”Of course, it is worse than this. Not only does an incumbent try to bring the innovation to its existing customers, it typically tries to bring it to its best existing customers. Ironically, these customers value the new attributes of the disruptive innovation the least.”

-Clayton Christensen, “Seeing What’s Next”. Page 50
This explains why die-hard Xbox fans are the most vocal against a Microsoft Wii-mote knock-off.

Not only will imitation piss of the audience they already have, but it will give credence to Nintendo for having the right strategy all along. 


 


 Squilliam, you should really read the article, it's extremely enlightening (but very, VERY long). And I'm going to make comments on your comments up there... 

 On a side-note... How many of us thinks that this is it. This is how far gaming can go. The controls we have now are perfect, there is no room for improvement?

Is there anyone other than me that is really interested to see where the next level will take us?



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I will drop this Arthur C. Clarke quote out here for ya buddy.

"Anything sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."

It is any body's guess as to where we are headed.



Ssyn said:

I don't think i implied the Wii flopped(also didn't intend to imply the Wii had bad games) but I do not like the idea of all the consoles moving to motion controls (most will but hopefully not in a dominate way as the Wii mote is for the Wii). I simply don't want Sony or M$ to follow in a way that will degrade their current/future traditional games.

 How wouldyour favorite Sony and M$ games be "degraded" by a Wiimote-like input device!?  Either these game are sentient beings with emotions and such or you're basically saying that Sony and M$ aren't skilled or clever enough as developers to make their games accessible or even playable using said input interface.



Has anybody else noticed lately that many of the pro-Microsoft posters around here have spontaneously changed their tune about motion-sensing controllers, incidentally? Even just a month ago, most of what you saw was scoffing at them, and all of a sudden, the position has totally reversed with no impetus save that MS is rumored to have one in development. Quite suspicious behavior, that... Most people don't spontaneously change their position on something the moment they hear that the company who makes their console of choice is going to be making the product they were scorning before too...



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

Kenology said:
Ssyn said:

I don't think i implied the Wii flopped(also didn't intend to imply the Wii had bad games) but I do not like the idea of all the consoles moving to motion controls (most will but hopefully not in a dominate way as the Wii mote is for the Wii). I simply don't want Sony or M$ to follow in a way that will degrade their current/future traditional games.

How wouldyour favorite Sony and M$ games be "degraded" by a Wiimote-like input device!? Either these game are sentient beings with emotions and such or you're basically saying that Sony and M$ aren't skilled or clever enough as developers to make their games accessible or even playable using said input interface.


 They would by no means "degrade" just simply wouldn't have the technology to improve as much as they could have without the Wii's dominace this generation. If M$ and Sony copy the Wii's best selling factors(now I don't only mean the controller) which is cheaper and more towards "casual" (I hate calling games Casual or Hardcore but I can't think of anonther word) than very simply it will not have as much as a push as lets say the PS2 to PS3 in terms of power, the upgrade would be on the same scale as prob a gamecube to Wii; all due to trying to bring down costs and capture a market they are getting none of this generation.



I think that a move to motion controllers could possibly degrade games if only for the fact that developers start making games less substantial and more casual. I like sitting down to a good game for 3 or 4 hours(more when Oblivion came out). I just haven't had that experience with the Wii. They are fun for a few bits here and there but nothing really to sink my teeth into.