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Forums - PC - The real winner of the gaming generation

Final-Fan on 19 May 2008
naznatips said:
Final-Fan said:
I didn't mean entirely digital distribution.

Speaking of DD, how much space do those games take up? How long does it take to put another game on it if you want to play one you don't have on the PC anymore? I have only used Steam a few times so I really don't know. How do you know they will always be available? Does the publisher have the ability to "recall" a game?

I must admit I did misunderstand what you meant by disc changing.

The online gaming stuff is definitely superior; I can only hope that consoles will catch up in the next great leap. Their capacity for incremental advances is understandably limited.

And I stand by my central assertion in the quoted material.
My Steam folder (which includes all 14 games) is a total of 26.8GB in size. My PC has a 360GB HDD. I'm not sure I understand the second question. It takes some time to download and install a game (at most a few hours for a big one like CoD4). Valve has promised that if Steam ever dies, they will release a client to allow you to play your games from it.

That said, all Steam games can be copied to a CD and backed up whenever you please. I don't believe a publisher can "recall" your game, but if you are caught cheating online Valve can take your game away and you'll be forced to re-purchase it. Repeat offenses can result in a banned Steam account.

The thing is consoles can't really catch up to many of these features next gen because they depend on digital distribution, and as I said any console focusing on it that heavily would struggle with retail support. The PSP has very little of it and was almost booted out of Best Buy pre-PSP Slim.
Nice. Thanks.

Clarifications:
1. You correctly interpreted my second question.

2. However, as for your last paragraph, I do not understand how the unified online gaming service you describe (I can also join a friend playing a game right from my instant message with them. In fact, I can join their server directly with just one click) would not be replicable except in a DD environment.  The only inherent limitation of a console similar to current ones that I can think of is that you would need to pop in the game disc before playing.  (And that's technically not dependent on DD.)  XBL comes closest to what you describe but isn't quite there, and I (ironically) don't know if you can do it at all with XBLA.  (No xbots jump on me plz, I honestly don't know.)

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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naznatips on 19 May 2008
Foshoryuken said:

Yeah, so basically Naz and SSJ12 think they know more than developers who actually make games because they sit on thier asses and videogame chat and play PC games. :)

Atleast have the guts to respond to someone who just called you out. Obviously I just killed it right there. You guys don't know more than an actual developer, who is apart of the video game industry and makes millions off of video games. So I guess me and my boy Clif B just "won".

PC gamers are the minorty. Too bad all that trying you guys did to convince me otherwise totally failed.
:)

Those are my final words of "pwnage". :)

 

Good night gentleman.


As was said many many times by ssj, final-fan, myself, and basically every other person who bothered to read this thread, you tried to present a subjective opinion as fact. The reason I can make statements is I did my research. I spent 45 minutes gathering sources, concrete information, and facts.

You found one quote from a console exclusive developer who's own boss contradicted him. You are being ignored because we are having an intelligent debate, which your opinion has no place in. We are discussing facts. You have none. If you decide to get some, and actually spend some time doing some concrete analysis of numbers on this sales site, please feel free to continue this discussion, but as of now you are incapable of discussing this issue with us.



naznatips on 19 May 2008
Final-Fan said:
naznatips said:
Final-Fan said:
I didn't mean entirely digital distribution.

Speaking of DD, how much space do those games take up? How long does it take to put another game on it if you want to play one you don't have on the PC anymore? I have only used Steam a few times so I really don't know. How do you know they will always be available? Does the publisher have the ability to "recall" a game?

I must admit I did misunderstand what you meant by disc changing.

The online gaming stuff is definitely superior; I can only hope that consoles will catch up in the next great leap. Their capacity for incremental advances is understandably limited.

And I stand by my central assertion in the quoted material.
My Steam folder (which includes all 14 games) is a total of 26.8GB in size. My PC has a 360GB HDD. I'm not sure I understand the second question. It takes some time to download and install a game (at most a few hours for a big one like CoD4). Valve has promised that if Steam ever dies, they will release a client to allow you to play your games from it.

That said, all Steam games can be copied to a CD and backed up whenever you please. I don't believe a publisher can "recall" your game, but if you are caught cheating online Valve can take your game away and you'll be forced to re-purchase it. Repeat offenses can result in a banned Steam account.

The thing is consoles can't really catch up to many of these features next gen because they depend on digital distribution, and as I said any console focusing on it that heavily would struggle with retail support. The PSP has very little of it and was almost booted out of Best Buy pre-PSP Slim.
Nice. Thanks.

Clarifications:
1. You correctly interpreted my second question.

2. However, as for your last paragraph, I do not understand how the unified online gaming service you describe (I can also join a friend playing a game right from my instant message with them. In fact, I can join their server directly with just one click) would not be replicable except in a DD environment. The only inherent limitation of a console similar to current ones that I can think of is that you would need to pop in the game disc before playing. (And that's technically not dependent on DD.) XBL comes closest to what you describe but isn't quite there, and I (ironically) don't know if you can do it at all with XBLA. (No xbots jump on me plz, I honestly don't know.)

Hrmm, I concede your point.  Joining a server from an instant message should be possible with a changing of a disc on consoles.  I have in no way described all the features of Steam though.  If you do have interest in them let me know and I'll break down all the advantages (and setbacks) for you.  



Final-Fan on 19 May 2008
naznatips said:
Final-Fan said:
OT7: if you have $500 and time to spend, and aren't terrified of building PCs, it should not be too hard to find enthusiasts online to help walk you through it. The only thing to watch out for is fanboys saying "Intel suxxors buy AMD" or vice versa, or the ATI/nVidia version of that, or people telling you you HAVE to get the stuff that will play (insert stupidly demanding game here). Basically, visit two or three forums or get advice from a dozen different people and you're probably safe.
Hey now! You don't trust ssj and I? Honestly though brand isn't that important, but you definitely should learn what brands not to buy. There are a lot of good brands, and a few bad ones. Just make sure you know the few bad ones hehe.
Well, he's safe asking either of you, but I wanted my advice to be all-purpose.  He could go anywhere on the internet with that IMO and be okay unless he asked 12 guys who were hanging out in one place because their warped minds were all warped alike.

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 19 May 2008
naznatips said:
Hrmm, I concede your point. Joining a server from an instant message should be possible with a changing of a disc on consoles. I have in no way described all the features of Steam though. If you do have interest in them let me know and I'll break down all the advantages (and setbacks) for you.
That would be nice but you don't have to do that.  I could probably find it all out pretty quickly on my own ... right?

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
naznatips on 19 May 2008
Final-Fan said:
naznatips said:
Hrmm, I concede your point. Joining a server from an instant message should be possible with a changing of a disc on consoles. I have in no way described all the features of Steam though. If you do have interest in them let me know and I'll break down all the advantages (and setbacks) for you.
That would be nice but you don't have to do that. I could probably find it all out pretty quickly on my own ... right?

Eh, yes and no.  I'm not sure you can click something and get an organized list of steam's features, advantages, and disadvantages (especially when it's constantly updating and adding new features). But, if you are willing to do the reading, obviously the information is available in various forms.  Just not well organized.



Foshoryuken on 19 May 2008

Naz, thats nice you spent 45 minutes to try and convince people that PC gaming is bigger than console. But I spent 45 seconds and debunked that.

This is 2007 top selling PC games.

1. World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade -- 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft -- 914,000
3. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack -- 433,000
4. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare -- 383,000
5. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars -- 343,000

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2253999,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152/

 

:) enjoy PC maniacs. Just wanted to prove you wrong.





 



ssj12 on 19 May 2008
Foshoryuken said:

Naz, thats nice you spent 45 minutes to try and convince people that PC gaming is bigger than console. But I spent 45 seconds and debunked that.

This is 2007 top selling PC games.

1. World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade -- 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft -- 914,000
3. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack -- 433,000
4. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare -- 383,000
5. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars -- 343,000

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2253999,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152/

 

:) enjoy PC maniacs. Just wanted to prove you wrong.





 


 These numbers do not contain digital downloads.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Foshoryuken on 19 May 2008
ssj12 said:
Foshoryuken said:

Naz, thats nice you spent 45 minutes to try and convince people that PC gaming is bigger than console. But I spent 45 seconds and debunked that.

This is 2007 top selling PC games.

1. World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade -- 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft -- 914,000
3. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack -- 433,000
4. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare -- 383,000
5. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars -- 343,000

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2253999,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152/

 

:) enjoy PC maniacs. Just wanted to prove you wrong.





 


 These numbers do not contain digital downloads.


Nice, but no cigar. Show me digital downloads numbers and you got something, but right now you got notta. :)

Sorry SSj12. You the man, but you are failing and flailing

DS alone possibly shit those numbers out in 2 months.



naznatips on 19 May 2008
Foshoryuken said:

Naz, thats nice you spent 45 minutes to try and convince people that PC gaming is bigger than console. But I spent 45 seconds and debunked that.

This is 2007 top selling PC games.

1. World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade -- 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft -- 914,000
3. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack -- 433,000
4. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare -- 383,000
5. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars -- 343,000

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2253999,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152/

 

:) enjoy PC maniacs. Just wanted to prove you wrong.


You really don't learn do you? Honestly I'm just tired of dealing with you. Have you noticed that other people like Final-Fan, PhatLaosBoi, and FaRmLaNd have actually been able to continue a discussion with us?

Just for the sake of dismissing your ignorance... you presented the top 5 games in retail sales in the PC's 3rd largest market. The total retail PC software sales in North America, as you would have learned if you had read my post, were about 36 million, compared to about 38.5 million per console. Not a very large difference. It just means PC retail software sales are fairly evenly distributed.

Along with this, you have completely ignored the existence of the half-a-dozen digital distribution services (in which we've already learned Popcap has distributed 175 million copies of their games), the fact that every unit on there can be up to 4X as profitable, and the regenerating revenue of not only the charging monthly MMOs like WoW, but the free ones like Maple Story.

Back to the actual discussion...