Gotcha. We're just disagreeing on terminology then.

the ps3 is more of a set top box the 360 can ever dream to be. its one of the reasons im mad at sony. they took the greatest system ever and basically turned it into a home theater device. i mean hdmi 1.3, blu-ray, 1080p/24, 7.1 uncompressed audio, multichannel pcm, etc. the thing sounds more like a upscale dvd player than a video game system. it seems like nintendo is the last company who really gets that gamers just want to play games. if the wii had better gfx, id say screw ms and sony all together

@ bdizzle

I guess the people owning suitable audio visual equipment will care about such features, they are consumers as well which would like to see hardware which does justice to their setup. Having said that even without 7.1 surround audio on a ordinary non-HD TV set games like Motorstorm and Resistance are really great games, if you like the current line-up of PS3 games you could view the additional specs as an investment into the future.

I understand some people may be upset about the high entry price of the PS3, but Sony still hasn't discontinued its much cheaper PS2 products for which games are available for pretty cheap nowadays. I bought Ape Escape 2, God of War and Jak 3 for my PS3 for less than 60 Euro combined a few days ago (for comparison I paid around 180 Euro for 3 PS3 games, Motorstorm, Resistance and Oblivion)! Great PS2 games and runs great on my PS3!

Due to the higher specs when a much cheaper slimline PS3 is released in a couple of years the console will still be interesting and powerful. New games will use engines taking better advantage of the cell processor and make good use of the additional storage of Blu-Ray discs, some current games will lbe available at budget prices, etc. People may dislike the PS3 for what it is today, but maybe in a few years this may all change dramatically and most people may actually be glad the initial specs were this ambitious...

It doesn't matter if the PS3 included a home security system, made french toast, and walked the dog. $500 gaming console is out of reach for most people.

Also, Microsoft brought HDDs to consoles on a major scale by being the first company to incorporate HDD into their system(s) 6 years ago. Saying that the Amiga "could" be hooked up to an internal hdd is kind of lame(would that be a 90's hardrive, 514kb??)...

@ gebx

Of course not, ordinary 2.5 inch or 3.5 inch harddrives as found in laptops and modern PCs of up to 4GB (or more with an OS upgrade) would do.

What I am saying, fitting a harddrive in a gaming console was possible before, so it's not really innovative. Sure M$ has a large marketing budget to push a console into the market, if you would have produced a better cut-down gaming PC yourself you would never have won against Microsoft's marketing power and brand recognition.

@ rocketpig

I thought emphasis was put on releasing a cut-down gaming PC with a harddrive on a massive scale. I just pointed out I expected nothing less from a mammoth company like Microsoft.

Where is the HDD for the Core? HDD is a really good idea, just don't forget itin the next generation. Sony is doing much better with (20GB) 60GB.

What if you bought a $299 360 I bet many gamers want to play GTA4. I don't think they will be happy to buy a $100 20GB since there is, a 120GB for $180.
The conclusion is Microsoft does not care for casual gamers nor non gamers.

I like Microsoft, because it's good to give the PS3 some competition. Ofcourse the 360 has some very good games. Mass Effect! 360 will have enough good games to make it worth buying.

Uh, GTA will not require a HDD. MS mandates that all games must be able to be played on the Core. 

IMO a major obstackle for developers to get the most out this additional feature (for example make use and rely on harddrive caching). The 20GB mostly seems useful for demos and smaller downloadable games, for high definition movies even just one Blu-Ray movie in full quality will likely not fit on the harddrive (and Microsoft needs a serious server upgrade if they are serious about the high definition movies distributed over the internet stand-point!).

Currently I mostly store ordinary resolution music videos, MP3 and photos on my PS3, 60GB is quite a lot but I am happy it's easily possible to upgrade to a bigger harddrive from any company myself. I did buy Lemmings, Blast Factor, Super Ruba Dub and Fl0w as well! Next up will most likely be Warhawk, the first game which will really require some space!