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Forums - Sales Discussion - Yes, the Wii is competing with the 360 and PS3, and it's easy to prove it

|_emmiwinks on 11 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:
saprano1 said:
HappySqurriel said:

It seems that there is an assumption that since everyone in the world did not abandon the Wii the second that Grand Theft Auto 4 was released then the Wii must be in a different market ... The people who make this assumption seem to forget that the Grand Theft Auto games have only ever sold to (at best) 10% of the market. There are other games people are using to make this claim, but there is a lot of overlap in the people who are interested in these types of games, and these games represent about 25% of existing gamers.

Even though the Wii doesn't have HD graphics it does have games that apeal to these same 25% of gamers, but it doesn't focus on them exclusively like the XBox 360 and PS3 does. Any argument that the Wii doesn't compete with the PS3 and XBox 360 can easily be seen as Nintendo has decided to create a videogame system which directly targets the whole gaming maket (as well as new gamers) with their Blue-Ocean strategy, while Sony and Microsoft have decided to create niche products which appeal to the small segment of core gamers.


If gta4 was only on ps3, that would have effected the 360. ps3 sales would have gone up, wile 360 stays normal. why? because the going after the same gamers, and those gamers want gta4. the wii is not going for that same gamer, do you think mom,dad, little sara, and billy give a crap about gta4? hell no, that why they got a wiii that week. LOL


If 90% of existing gamers do not care about Grand Theft Auto how can you use its lack of effect on the Wii's sales as an excuse for the Wii not competing with the PS3 and XBox 360 unless you're arguing that the PS3 and XBox 360 are only targeting the 10% of gamers that are interested in Grand Theft Auto 4?


 SHAZAM! He sees the Light!! Sony and Microsoft are basically only competeing for that 10%, because when they spent the billions to develope the PS3 and 360 that 10% was nearly 100% of the gaming population. 

 

It wasnt till Nintendo that the Gaming population grew to include people that play PopCap games and Solitair. take that as you will. 



I own all three current consoles and a great gaming rig, now thats out of the way.

This space Reserved for the Nuggets of Wisdom dropped by Bladeforce:

"Why post something like this when all it will get is PS3 owners blinded to reality replying? BOTH THE PS3 AND BLUE-RAY WILL NOT LAST 3 YEARS! TECHNOLOGY CHANGED TOO FAST!"

"is it Wii FIt that has sold as many as PS3's sold? Thats a LOL Look at the total sales of software is it just me that sees Nintendo titles hitting 10m+ and you say they arent making a difference? Another LOL!"

"Hell, with all the negative hype Sony spin, people just aren't interested cost is too high and to get the true HD experience (1080p, 7.1 surround) you will need a $1000+ system. THAT IS GOING TO DO IT IN A RECESSION! PS4 will not happen"

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Grampy on 11 May 2008

I believe you will find that the correct answer is A&B. The video game industry was showing clear signs of a shrinkage. Japan was shrinking and the US stagnet. Games were frustrating and alienating more gamers than were being replaced by new gamers.
Iwata specifically designed both the DS and the Wii to grow the market by making gaming more accesable. Once he did that, in addition to recruiting a new market, the Wii obviously competes for the existing market as well.



Killergran on 11 May 2008
insomniac17 said:
This whole subject will never be resolved, you know that right?

I still think that it is more focused on casual games and on Nintendo's traditional fannbase. Sony and Microsoft are focusing almost exclusively on hardcore gamers. So, they are competing to a degree; their target crowds overlap, but are not entirely the same.

Well said. However, try taking it one more step.

What is the problem here really? The problem is that counting marketshare between these two target crowds is impossible. It's also pretty much irrelevant.

Thinking about how big your marketshare is only takes you so far. Or actually not that far at all.

A fact is that Nintendo's definition of the market is wider than Sony's or Microsoft, and that that simple fact has made Nintendo a ton of money. Sony and Microsoft are from now on working in a niche in the console market. This is about the same situation as when PS first made games 'cool' and socially acceptable back in the day when WIpeout was the hippest game in the world. Widening the market makes you a ton of money.

Also. An illustration of how ridicoulus (Can't spell that word, sorry) the whole idea of marketshare is, consider a couple of possible ways to define this market:

1. Hardcore gamers that has bought a console this generation

2. People that have bought a console this generation

3. Casual gamers that have bought a console this generation (would probably give ninty a really nice share of the market)

4.  Hardcore gamers owning a console (this would include the PS2... things would get turned upside down)

5. Gamers.  All of them. PC, console, handheld... all of these actually make a group that might have some interest in buying a new console.

...

I'm not going to bore you with additional variants. It just goes to show that there IS no way to actually count marketshare or who's competing with who easily. It's all relative and subjective.



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CrazzyMan on 11 May 2008

3- Games like MGS4, KZ2, LBP, GT5, FFXIII, FFXIIIv, R2 and etc. are not yet released.

Sorry, but you just making conclusions too early.
You just don`t think, that games above will have any BIG effect on sales of PS3.

Moreover, PS3 is ON track with PS2:

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=100

For what reason you comapre sales in each region, when TOTAL sales matters. =)



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

Baddman on 11 May 2008

lol you guys take this stuff waaaaaaaay too serious



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saprano1 on 11 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:
saprano1 said:
HappySqurriel said:

It seems that there is an assumption that since everyone in the world did not abandon the Wii the second that Grand Theft Auto 4 was released then the Wii must be in a different market ... The people who make this assumption seem to forget that the Grand Theft Auto games have only ever sold to (at best) 10% of the market. There are other games people are using to make this claim, but there is a lot of overlap in the people who are interested in these types of games, and these games represent about 25% of existing gamers.

Even though the Wii doesn't have HD graphics it does have games that apeal to these same 25% of gamers, but it doesn't focus on them exclusively like the XBox 360 and PS3 does. Any argument that the Wii doesn't compete with the PS3 and XBox 360 can easily be seen as Nintendo has decided to create a videogame system which directly targets the whole gaming maket (as well as new gamers) with their Blue-Ocean strategy, while Sony and Microsoft have decided to create niche products which appeal to the small segment of core gamers.


If gta4 was only on ps3, that would have effected the 360. ps3 sales would have gone up, wile 360 stays normal. why? because the going after the same gamers, and those gamers want gta4. the wii is not going for that same gamer, do you think mom,dad, little sara, and billy give a crap about gta4? hell no, that why they got a wiii that week. LOL


If 90% of existing gamers do not care about Grand Theft Auto how can you use its lack of effect on the Wii's sales as an excuse for the Wii not competing with the PS3 and XBox 360 unless you're arguing that the PS3 and XBox 360 are only targeting the 10% of gamers that are interested in Grand Theft Auto 4?

 I never said ninteno is not compeating in the same market , i said it doesn't matter.i think most of nintendos sales come from a mix of people who never played games before, and those that have.  those casual people that i mentioned(mom,dad,sara,bill) really dont care about games like that.if they did ps3 would have sold 400,000 systems in america that week, not wii.

saprano1 on 11 May 2008
|_emmiwinks said:
HappySqurriel said:
saprano1 said:
HappySqurriel said:

It seems that there is an assumption that since everyone in the world did not abandon the Wii the second that Grand Theft Auto 4 was released then the Wii must be in a different market ... The people who make this assumption seem to forget that the Grand Theft Auto games have only ever sold to (at best) 10% of the market. There are other games people are using to make this claim, but there is a lot of overlap in the people who are interested in these types of games, and these games represent about 25% of existing gamers.

Even though the Wii doesn't have HD graphics it does have games that apeal to these same 25% of gamers, but it doesn't focus on them exclusively like the XBox 360 and PS3 does. Any argument that the Wii doesn't compete with the PS3 and XBox 360 can easily be seen as Nintendo has decided to create a videogame system which directly targets the whole gaming maket (as well as new gamers) with their Blue-Ocean strategy, while Sony and Microsoft have decided to create niche products which appeal to the small segment of core gamers.


If gta4 was only on ps3, that would have effected the 360. ps3 sales would have gone up, wile 360 stays normal. why? because the going after the same gamers, and those gamers want gta4. the wii is not going for that same gamer, do you think mom,dad, little sara, and billy give a crap about gta4? hell no, that why they got a wiii that week. LOL


If 90% of existing gamers do not care about Grand Theft Auto how can you use its lack of effect on the Wii's sales as an excuse for the Wii not competing with the PS3 and XBox 360 unless you're arguing that the PS3 and XBox 360 are only targeting the 10% of gamers that are interested in Grand Theft Auto 4?


 SHAZAM! He sees the Light!! Sony and Microsoft are basically only competeing for that 10%, because when they spent the billions to develope the PS3 and 360 that 10% was nearly 100% of the gaming population. 

 

It wasnt till Nintendo that the Gaming population grew to include people that play PopCap games and Solitair. take that as you will. 

uh....no the ps2 made the market grow,its the first console to sell 100 million.



NJ5 on 11 May 2008
CrazzyMan said:

3- Games like MGS4, KZ2, LBP, GT5, FFXIII, FFXIIIv, R2 and etc. are not yet released.

Sorry, but you just making conclusions too early.
You just don`t think, that games above will have any BIG effect on sales of PS3.

Moreover, PS3 is ON track with PS2:

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=100

For what reason you comapre sales in each region, when TOTAL sales matters. =)


I already said why per-territory is the correct way to go when comparing aligned launches. When a console is only being sold in one territory, customers from other territories aren't going to travel just to buy a console (with very very few exceptions).

Therefore, the market doesn't become magically global just by launching in one territory.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Kasz216 on 11 May 2008
Xiru said:
PS3 is doing well. It is starting to line up with the PS2 in terms of sales worldwide and at a higher price(not bad for a "failed" console). Stop trying to say the PS3 is doing bad, when its not. Its just that the Wii is doing a lot better than even the PS2 was, so it looks bad for the PS3. The market is growing and the PS3 might actually sell more in its lifetime than the PS2 if it can overcome the hurdles in Japan.

Wii is in the same market as the PS3/360 but it is targetting non-gamers. They have stated this many times.

PS3/360 - traditional gamers
Wii - everyone else

Yes, they are in the same market. Yes, the Wii is destroying the others in sales. But all the games I want to play are still on the PS3/360. So does it really matter?

If by line up you mean be 9 million + behind when you align all the launches.

 



Imthelegend on 11 May 2008

The real reason that PS3 and 360 fanboys do not think that Wii is competing is that they cannot believe that a "last gen" console can be winning a battle against their HD powerhouses. If the opposite was true and the HD consoles were beating Wii then the fanboys would be saying"we all new the Wii couldn't compete against the PS3 and 360". Funny how this is the case isnt it.