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Forums - Gaming - Beauty is skin deep: Calling out the graphics pimps

MikeB said:
@ twestern

Lair is IMO a well above average game and although parts of the game seems unpolished, other parts were amazing for me. And I greatly prefer Sixaxis controlls over analog sticks I should add (the biggest complaint by many journalists). I wonder why people keep bringing up this game as the pinnacle example of a bad game, I guess most of such people haven't played Lair at all.

Maybe because it averages 55% on gamerankings with over 50% of reviewers giving it a score of 50% or less?

IGN

Closing Comments
You might think I'm being too hard on Lair, but if you do, you clearly haven't played this game. Although there are levels where wide-open environments and spread-out objectives trick you into thinking the Sixaxis stuff isn't that bad, whenever a handful of enemies are on screen, your flight space becomes limited or you need to be precise, this game falls apart.

At one point, Lair looked like one of the most promising titles coming to the PS3, but the final version -- even with its interesting story, occasionally impressive graphics and amazing score -- falls well short of anything you should be playing.

IGN Ratings for Lair (PS3)
RatingDescription
out of 10click here for ratings guide
8.0Presentation
From the opening movie to the dragon-flying-over-a-map chapter select screen, Lair has you engrossed in its medieval feel, which an interesting story and quality VO perpetuates.
7.5Graphics
It's the definition of a mixed bag. The FMVs look awesome; the in-game stuff looks great but chugs; and the custscenes using in-game assets look framey.
8.0Sound
There's a sweeping score that really captures the moment and some quality voice work, but there are moments when you'll be attacking a catapult and it seems like a sound effect is missing.
4.5Gameplay
A bus-like feel and Sixaxis controls kill this game. In wide-open areas, it's okay, but the moment you need precision, you realize you’re screwed -- you can't corner, target or fight well.
5.5Lasting Appeal
There are leaderboards to track, medals to earn and movies to unlock, but the frustrating control scheme will probably stop you from coming back for more.
4.9
Poor
OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)

 

Gamespot

You shouldn't play Lair. Not unless you have some morbid interest in experiencing what is quite possibly one of the worst control schemes ever devised. It's a shame because as a cinematic experience, it's stunning to watch. As a game, it's a nightmare and an embarrassment. It sounds like a fantastic idea: You fly around on a dragon, spewing fire and clawing at other reptiles while generally wreaking havoc. Too bad you're forced to use Sixaxis controls that destroy the possibility of fun and replace it with the constant need to scream expletives at your television screen.

 

Basically, all reviews could be summed up as "If you're a graphics whore you'll love this game, otherwise it is garbage"



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MikeB said:
@ twestern

Lair is IMO a well above average game and although parts of the game seem unpolished and rushed, other parts were amazing for me. And I greatly prefer Sixaxis controlls over analog sticks I should add (the biggest complaint by many journalists). I wonder why people keep bringing up this game as the pinnacle example of a bad game, I guess most of such people haven't played Lair at all.

There are obviously going to be people that like every game, there are people like like NinjaBread Man and even Bomberman Zero, but that doesn't make the game good. As for talking bad about the game despite never playing it, I don't need to swim in a septic tank to know it smells bad, there are some things I can just take peoples word for it.

As HappySqurriel pointed out, most reviewers agree that Lair was terrible. That's good enough for me to know the game is quite bad. As I said, I'm only considering picking it up because it's only $10 (and I'll probably even return and get my money back after having my fill for a few hours) and I'm just curious about a few things on the controls and how they pulled a few things off.



@ HappySqurriel

The gameplay of Lair was fun for me. A friend of likes the game as well:

http://home.broadpark.no/~taksnes/playstation3.html

We don't think US game reviewers are gods. Before crying 'blasphemy!' I think you should play the game yourself to make up your own mind.

@ twestern

And no, we don't like just about any game.

I think unlike Lair, Killzone 2 isn't a game that will be unpolished or rushed upon release.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

I agree that graphics aren't everything, but we are talking about a FPS; a genre where better graphics, physics are most certainly a must.

I thought Resistance was fun, but most review and gaming sites were quick to point out that the graphics were nothing spectacular.

I would like to know more about Killzone's AI, multiplayer, but there is still time; even the new videos that sprung up have "pre-alpha" in them.

With Resistance 2, we know what the multiplayer online will offer, but we still don't know how the final product will look; the same thing rings true about 360's big title, Gears of War II.



MikeB said:
@ HappySqurriel

The gameplay of Lair was fun for me. A friend of mine likes the game as well:

http://home.broadpark.no/~taksnes/playstation3.html

We don't think US game reviewers are gods. Before crying 'blasphemy!' I think you should play the game yourself to make up your own mind.

@ twestern

And no, we don't like just about any game.

I think unlike Lair, Killzone 2 isn't a game that will be unpolished or rushed upon release.

 Sorry for not being clear, I mean that for every game there will be people that like it for various reasons.  While you may not like something like Bomberman Zero, you are one of those people that like Lair.  Not saying there's anything wrong with that, just saying there has to be someone that likes the game.

Also, I do expect Killzone 2 to be very polished and never hinted otherwise.  I just don't expect the gameplay to be anything above meh since they are only hyping the graphics.



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I think gameplay > Graphics

BUT

having said that, in this day and age, there is a certain standard that has to be upheld graphically for me to really be wowed by a game. That's probably why I liked Halo 3 and the same reason I loved COD4.

I won't sit through a graphically impressive game if I think the gameplay is not done well (FFXII), while I will gladly play games that don't have cutting edge graphics (95% of the DS's library) and still have a fun gameplay system.

Personally, in terms of the debate, I'd say by the end of the generation it'll be

360 and Wii VS PS3.

It's coming some day, that the 360 will hit the roof of it's graphical potential and PS3 will keep moving on. At that point MS has got to innovate gameplay (like what sony did with the PS2 and what nintendo failed to do with GCN when the Xbox was released).



@ Famine

I agree that graphics aren't everything, but we are talking about a FPS; a genre where better graphics, physics are most certainly a must.

I thought Resistance was fun, but most review and gaming sites were quick to point out that the graphics were nothing spectacular.


Agreed, Resistance graphics IMO good. But a lot of other stuff in that game made it great for me. I expect Resistance 2 to go far beyond the original in terms of graphics and physics (just look at Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction aleady).

Killzone 2:







Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@ twestern

I just don't expect the gameplay to be anything above meh since they are only hyping the graphics.


I think they are focussing on gameplay and overall experience. They do highlight technical aspects of the game at developer meetings, this to shed some light on the things they have implemented and how this can be achieved. I think there's nothing wrong with that, sharing knowledge on how to make games perform well while also looking really slick.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB said:
@ HappySqurriel

The gameplay of Lair was fun for me. A friend of likes the game as well:

http://home.broadpark.no/~taksnes/playstation3.html

We don't think US game reviewers are gods. Before crying 'blasphemy!' I think you should play the game yourself to make up your own mind.

@ twestern

And no, we don't like just about any game.

I think unlike Lair, Killzone 2 isn't a game that will be unpolished or rushed upon release.

Saying you "Enjoy" a game is quite a bit different from saying that a game is "Good" ...

Now, I think that reviewers do have problems generating review scores which are decent for comparisons of two games in different genres but I think that (in general) they are very good at spoting broken gameplay mechanics, and large bugs. Lair's reviews were not claiming that the game was not enjoyable because of some preference for another style of gameplay, they were claiming that the game had seriously broken gameplay mechanics and very large bugs; you can argue that you enjoyed playing the game but I don't think you can really argue that it was a good game.

A (personal) example of what I am talking about is Red Steel. Red Steel was a very good idea, that was rushed and executed with mediocre precision; as a result the game was below average but if you could live with the flaws was quite enjoyable.



@ twestern

Lair isn't the masterpiece it could have become. Like I said before I think the game is unique and well above average though.

Four Famitsu reviewers gave Lair a 9, 7, 8 and a 9. Maybe the US Sixaxis controls are broken or something, that would explain the Super Ruba Dub score this fun and simple game got from IGN. (Had tons of fun with my girlfriend)

IMO some review websites are very inconsistent with regard to their criticism and highlighting of strong and weak points (GameSpot) and are clearly biased towards systems. IGN is IMO much better overall.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales