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Forums - Microsoft - In defense of Microsoft: A response to DMeisterJ

Final-Fan said:
I see starcraft's main argument as a complete failure of logic.

The PS2 had the vast majority of last gen's sales, so most of the millions the 360 will sell beyond the original Xbox are taken from that audience. We agree on that much. (Most of the userbase growth is going to Nintendo, as the dominant/casual console, just like in all gens.)

But what does that have to do with whether the 360 is getting (or going to get) its ass kicked by the PS3? If the 360 steals some of the PS2's audience away from the PS3, but the PS3 still inherits way more than that amount, the PS3 is still beating the 360.

It reminds me of the common urge to "throw good money after bad" when sunk costs are involved. Obviously this is a very different situation but it reminds me of that.

As for the final portion of the OP, I don't think the profitability of MS (or Sony) was in DMeisterJ's mind when he made that thread. The question was whether this was the end of the 360's hardware sales dominance in NA, and therefore a sign of things to come. I doubt that "beginning of the end" was meant to equate to "beginning to die" like so many people presumed. I saw it as merely what one person described as the "point of no return" -- a high water mark from which the 360 will recede and eventually fade away. (...While the PS3 still has a brighter future ahead, of course, in his analysis.)

Maybe not. Maybe DMeisterJ meant the more dramatic interpretation after all. But either way he was talking about the future of 360 HW sales, not SW sales, unless he redacted parts of the OP.

Dealing with the bolded parts in order.

1.  This is because you seem to have missed the conclusion I am drawing.  Read on.

2.  If we assume that the Xbox 360 will die after it reaches Xbox numbers, then it is indeed past it's prime.  However as I stated, the majority of the PS2's business was done at the $199 mark.  As the Xbox 360 has demonstrated a capacity to pick up PS2 gamers, it is even more likely to continue to do so at lower price points.  At no point did I suggest that the PS3 wouldn't outsell the Xbox 360 eventually, only that it wouldn't mean the death of the Xbox 360 and that the 'victory' would be inconsequential.

3.  Actually, "good money after bad" would only apply if Microsoft WEREN'T making a profit now, which they are.

4.  DMeisterJ DID edit his thread's OP.  None of the bolded parts (red or black) were in there originally.  I quoted one of his earlier posts to show that he never specified that his thread was about HW until he was called on software and profits. 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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well unles we start seeing an increase in ps3 sales now it is more logical to go on the past few months then it is to asume it will increase in sales because nothing is 100% certian. People can claim something will do this or that and then it doesnt, the consumer just chose differently to the bias the analyser looked at the situation through.

on a ligher note, Im not star crafts alter poster, I just dont believe in airy fairy predictions of the future when fan boys are involved



If at first you don't succeed, you fail

100,000 people bought Xbox 360's this week gone for GTAIV (extrapoloted based on the difference in sales WW week-over-week).  The vast majority of those peopl were PS2 owners.  Think about that for a moment.  100,000 of the kind of people that only buy one console per generation will, from this moment on, be purchasing games for a Microsoft console (the console sales themselves will already have given Microsoft a profit off these new customers) INSTEAD of a Sony console.

so where's your proof that majority of the 100k people who bought the x360 are ps2 owners? where is your proof that these people only buy one console per generation? link? evidence? none? no link/evidence = baloney  

But 100,000 people left Sony for Microsoft this week, and as many as 300,000 left Sony for Nintendo

again, where's your proof that these 100k-300k individuals owned a ps2? link? evidence? proof? none? again = bunch of baloney

 

it has a more expansive, diverse and quality-filled library than the PS3 (according to Gamerankings.com). 

this is what i would expect from a fanboy. and fanboy=bias=unreliable srouce of information for other consoles.

 

Futhermore, Microsoft has significantly more leverage to cut prices than Sony does, suggesting that by the end of the year, the console will be approaching mass market prices, such as the $US199 point where the PS2 did the majority of it's business

really? and you know this from where?

 

However,  given the business models of both Sony and Microsoft call for early hardware losses to be recovered on software sales, I'd think the fact the Xbox 360 continues to have enormous software sales and just substantially outsold Sony on a Playstation associated franchis is arguably the most significant factor for us to examine.

your right, let us indeed examine this further

i believe associated franchise=gtra4

install base 

x360 (us+others)= 18,116,203

ps3 (us+others) = 10,281,004

ratio = 1:1.7 in favor of x360

 

gtaiv week 1 sales

x360 (us+others) = 3,288,125

ps3 (us+others) = 2,613,973

ratio = 1:1.2 in favor of x360

 

attach ratio

x360 = 18%

ps3 = 25%

 

sales boost versus previous week (us+others)

april 26

ps3 - 187,299

x360 - 159,763

 

may 3

ps3 - 342,606

x360 - 264,305

 

sales increase

ps3 - 82%

x360 - 65%

 

hmmmmmmm



SnowWhitesDrug said:
hey cut starcraft a break, hes done research papers and stuff on ms and the industry so I think he has a better understanding of the situation ms is in then any one who thinks ms is going down. Sony fan boys just accept the fact that its going to be a while before you can crown your little ps3 as seccond place, if it actually does manage to maintian its current sales. Stop living in the future glory because nothing is for certian. accept that sony is still loosing, by a HUGE margin and stop bashing the 360. I can say this because Im a wii fan and will get a ps3 for the blu ray player one day and have no intention on getting a 360 so dont call me a fan boy

That margin is: less than one year, the headstart 360 had when it was all alone out there in the new gen.

Is your first sentence fucking serious? 

 



Ahh yes, I see Starcraft is back. Welcome back. I missed you :).

BTW, are you quoting yourself in your sig? Never seen anyone do that before.



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ils411 said:

100,000 people bought Xbox 360's this week gone for GTAIV (extrapoloted based on the difference in sales WW week-over-week). The vast majority of those peopl were PS2 owners. Think about that for a moment. 100,000 of the kind of people that only buy one console per generation will, from this moment on, be purchasing games for a Microsoft console (the console sales themselves will already have given Microsoft a profit off these new customers) INSTEAD of a Sony console.

so where's your proof that majority of the 100k people who bought the x360 are ps2 owners? where is your proof that these people only buy one console per generation? link? evidence? none? no link/evidence = baloney

 

But 100,000 people left Sony for Microsoft this week, and as many as 300,000 left Sony for Nintendo

again, where's your proof that these 100k-300k individuals owned a ps2? link? evidence? proof? none? again = bunch of baloney

 

it has a more expansive, diverse and quality-filled library than the PS3 (according to Gamerankings.com).

this is what i would expect from a fanboy. and fanboy=bias=unreliable srouce of information for other consoles.

 

Futhermore, Microsoft has significantly more leverage to cut prices than Sony does, suggesting that by the end of the year, the console will be approaching mass market prices, such as the $US199 point where the PS2 did the majority of it's business

really? and you know this from where?

 

However, given the business models of both Sony and Microsoft call for early hardware losses to be recovered on software sales, I'd think the fact the Xbox 360 continues to have enormous software sales and just substantially outsold Sony on a Playstation associated franchis is arguably the most significant factor for us to examine.

your right, let us indeed examine this further

i believe associated franchise=gtra4

install base

x360 (us+others)= 18,116,203

ps3 (us+others) = 10,281,004

ratio = 1:1.7 in favor of x360

 

gtaiv week 1 sales

x360 (us+others) = 3,288,125

ps3 (us+others) = 2,613,973

ratio = 1:1.2 in favor of x360

 

attach ratio

x360 = 18%

ps3 = 25%

 

sales boost versus previous week (us+others)

april 26

ps3 - 187,299

x360 - 159,763

 

may 3

ps3 - 342,606

x360 - 264,305

 

sales increase

ps3 - 82%

x360 - 65%

 

hmmmmmmm

Wow.  Just wow.

Everything I said is clearly my opinion.  But why for example, do people in this thread seem happy to believe that those buying PS3's last week bought them for GTAIV were PS2 owners, but not the same truth for Xbox 360?

As for the ridiculous software comparision you just made?   How about you just understand one thing?  A franchise that sold ridiculous amounts on Sony platforms and only a few million total on Microsoft platforms, just sold more of it's most recent iteration on the Xbox 360 than on the PS3.

Developers arn't going to care much about attach rates if one console is still selling more software than the one with the 'better' attach rate.  In any case, the Xbox 360's attach rate across the board is better than the PS3's.

But you clearly missed one of my major points which is this:  Unlike last generation, both the Microsoft and Sony platforms will prove to be viable choices for all third party games this generation, to the exclusion of NONE (except moneyhatted games).  This means that unless the PS3 suddenly gains an inexplicable 20 million+ userbase advantage over the Xbox 360, the PS3 will get no exclusive games it wouldn't already have received. 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

TheRealMafoo said:
Ahh yes, I see Starcraft is back. Welcome back. I missed you :).

BTW, are you quoting yourself in your sig? Never seen anyone do that before.

Hey there.  I noticed in one of your posts (cant find the thread again), you pointed out that I have not yet done the "why you should want a PS3" thread I promised.  Unfortunately, the deadline for this thread's creation passed over the course of my undeserved ban.  However, you can look for the thread sometime over the weekend and expect to find it.

 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

lool

let me see if I got this right

so you turned PS3 being 100,000 units ahead in THE biggest week of XBOX 360(and probably the only week that it could ousell PS3 this year) as a bad news for PS3?

all your arguments are flawed and backed by your imaginations




seriously man,,,do you work for MS?it seems you wasted lots of time/energy to write this hollow article to protect MS



 

 

 

starcraft said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Ahh yes, I see Starcraft is back. Welcome back. I missed you :).

BTW, are you quoting yourself in your sig? Never seen anyone do that before.

Hey there.  I noticed in one of your posts (cant find the thread again), you pointed out that I have not yet done the "why you should want a PS3" thread I promised.  Unfortunately, the deadline for this thread's creation passed over the course of my undeserved ban.  However, you can look for the thread sometime over the weekend and expect to find it.

 

 


 Cool, I look forward to reading it :).

And it was in the the "Why you should want a 360 thread". 



*wakes up*

*opens laptop*

*refreshes vgchartz page*

starcraft's back?

*goes back to bed*