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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5's operating income already more than PS1, PS2, PS3 & PS4 combined.

EpicRandy said:

~1.3B profits out of ~15B revenue, 2023 was 2B profit out of 29.4B revenue which make 2016 having the better yield. Bungie was not on the book as 1.Sony made the acquisition not PlayStation and 2 that's not how acquisition are accounted for.

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You didn't understood what I meant, of course if PS5 sales where to nosedive it would be a major concern because it will be a disaster for there revenue and revenue is what they care about. But if they had a way to circumvent revenue lost by PS5 sale nosediving then it would not be a worry therefore it's not PS5 sales nosediving that is a concern in itself but its impact on the revenue.

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Quite the contrary, it shows that judging a business solely by it's size or in this case, number of console sold, can be extremely misleading, Sony had way higher revenue than Xbox and yet Xbox was able to provide an healthier business with more RoI.

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You claim relevancy as a factor of position over competition because you use a consumer point of view, it doesn't matter that Sony PS5 is outselling Xbox as much as they are, it still not enough for them to provide a RoI able to keep investment flowing in while overlooking other options like increasing PC support, exactly as MS was force concluded almost a decade earlier due to their lower install base. 

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This is backward, nobody would keep a business that have no yield or prospect and no MS isn't philanthropically supporting Xbox as your suggestion entail. The actual reasons that a trillion dollar company is backing Xbox is because Xbox manage to produce RoI. Still not enough to fully satisfy them because MS is also forcing contraction onto Xbox (so long for "backing"). 

Sony has stated that PlayStation profits are impacted by Bungie: PlayStation operating profit dips as Sony pays toward Bungie buyout, game development costs (tweaktown.com)

If Sony is worried about revenue dropping than PS5 sales nosediving is absolutely a concern. You claim if there is a way to circumvent that lost revenue then it wouldn't be a concern. But there isn't. So coming to the conclusion that its only the revenue, but not actually the console, when console sales are the primary business model in the mid term, and without an option to circumvent that lost revenue otherwise, doesn't really hold up. 

Nintendo and Sony both use console sales as one of the primary ways to judge the health of their business. And without Microsoft providing any concrete numbers when it comes to Xbox, I don't see how you could argue better returns, especially when Xbox is already Day One with PC. That means, technically, Microsoft is serving a significantly larger userbase of players than Sony is right now. Does Xbox really have the better ROI in that sense? Its says a lot when Xbox has only 4% better ROI (using the figures you provided in your last post) with 2x the userbase of players (60M+ PS5's versus 200M+ Xbox & PC). 

Another thing you have to remember is that Sony decided on PC ports during the literal peak of PlayStation profits. They decided to pursue live service games and make them multiplatform during the peak of PlayStation profits. This wasn't a rash decision made in 2022. And of course, Microsoft is not supporting Xbox philanthropically, but that doesn't take merit away from Xbox going the way of Sega without a trillion dollar parent company backing them. 



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PotentHerbs said:

Sony has stated that PlayStation profits are impacted by Bungie: PlayStation operating profit dips as Sony pays toward Bungie buyout, game development costs (tweaktown.com)

If Sony is worried about revenue dropping than PS5 sales nosediving is absolutely a concern. You claim if there is a way to circumvent that lost revenue then it wouldn't be a concern. But there isn't. So coming to the conclusion that its only the revenue, but not actually the console, when console sales are the primary business model in the mid term, and without an option to circumvent that lost revenue otherwise, doesn't really hold up. 

Nintendo and Sony both use console sales as one of the primary ways to judge the health of their business. And without Microsoft providing any concrete numbers when it comes to Xbox, I don't see how you could argue better returns, especially when Xbox is already Day One with PC. That means, technically, Microsoft is serving a significantly larger userbase of players than Sony is right now. Does Xbox really have the better ROI in that sense? Its says a lot when Xbox has only 4% better ROI (using the figures you provided in your last post) with 2x the userbase of players (60M+ PS5's versus 200M+ Xbox & PC). 

Another thing you have to remember is that Sony decided on PC ports during the literal peak of PlayStation profits. They decided to pursue live service games and make them multiplatform during the peak of PlayStation profits. This wasn't a rash decision made in 2022. And of course, Microsoft is not supporting Xbox philanthropically, but that doesn't take merit away from Xbox going the way of Sega without a trillion dollar parent company backing them. 

TweakTown is wrong here, Sony only stated an increase in operating cost because of Bungie, not because they account for the buyout but because they are now responsible for Bungie own operating cost. The cost of the acquisition itself is not amortized upon PlayStation Revenue. It's clear in the earnings report they link in the article.

I don't see how you could argue better returns

12% returns on investment > ~6.8% disclosed by Sony, simple as that.

Does Xbox really have the better ROI in that sense

simply yes

Its says a lot when Xbox has only 4% better ROI

4% increase RoI not just 4% better it's 12%/6.8% = ~76% better

Its says a lot when Xbox has only 4% better ROI (using the figures you provided in your last post) with 2x the userbase of players (60M+ PS5's versus 200M+ Xbox & PC). 

The size of the userbase does not matter here, it's simply revenue/expense and it's Sony here that had the bigger revenue with $26.8 for 2022 (likely the year for which MS disclosed their own 12% RoI in 2023 ) to ~$15B for Xbox. 

Another thing you have to remember is that Sony decided on PC ports during the literal peak of PlayStation profits.

They were testing the water but they only now decided to support PC with most of their release and not just it being an afterthought.

They decided to pursue live service games and make them multiplatform during the peak of PlayStation profits. This wasn't a rash decision made in 2022.

Didn't claim it was, the big live service focus decision was taken during peak Covid, they likely would not have taken this decision if they had taken it later but now they are stuck with ongoing High-risk projects amidst unfavorable conditions.

And of course, Microsoft is not supporting Xbox philanthropically, but that doesn't take merit away from Xbox going the way of Sega without a trillion dollar parent company backing them. 

What is even the point of this statement, discrediting Xbox's success because of MS? By using your very same argument and looking at the doc in the OP it's clear Playstation would have bankrupted or gone the Sega way during the PS3 gen without Sony backing them.

And even then that's still speculation over speculation, because without Sony backing PlayStation they likely would not have taken the risk of making the Cell processor and include a Blu-ray player which made the PS3 expensive enough that consumers were holding back. 

Same with Xbox, without MS they likely would not have financed Kinect, would not have pushed for Always Online and the Xbox One Fiasco would have been avoided.

You literally cannot say what Xbox would have been if it was independent, same with Sony. You cannot even say whether or not Nintendo would have been as successful or even still a console maker if it was owned by a larger entity.



I could imagine that the PS5 will even overtake the PS2/PS4. Next year will definitely be the biggest record year in the last 8 years.