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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

the-pi-guy said:
Tober said:

Children a burden?

Yes conservatives seem to view other people's children as a burden, and don't want to do anything to help them out. 

The irony here is that they are also the ones who promote more child births, even if that child is born out of rape and will enter a lifestyle of drugs, alcohol and abuse.

They want the children. But don't want the responsibility... Sadly they aren't intelligent enough to understand that you don't get it both ways.

hellobion2 said:

Overall with everything in politics I was wondering if anyone else here decides not to vote like myself.

It honestly baffles me how it's not a legal requirement to vote in the united states.
You get a hefty fine if you don't vote here in Australia.

But I guess not voting is a vote in of itself... It's just a null vote, so it favours the individual who has more votes.



The_Yoda said:
hellobion2 said:

Overall with everything in politics I was wondering if anyone else here decides not to vote like myself.

I think both Biden and Trump suck, each scary in their own way. 

All politicians have Pro's and Con's.

My suggestion is... Throw the idea and terms like "Republican" and "Democrat" out the window... And base your vote on who brings the most positive impacts to your life and lifestyle.

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

Yeah I'm a results guy.  Russia's invasion started once Biden got in.  Immigration was under control before.  I have about 1/40th the wealth I had when Biden took office and businesses all around agree, the economy sucks no matter what the numbers on the TV says.  Nobody has money.  The world is on the brink of WW3 and all the people that we were fearmongered would be aggressive with Trump have been moreso under Biden.  Also Biden did the slimiest thing ever by taking credit for jobs "created" by lifting shutdowns.  What a bunch of BS inflated numbers.

Got a few blatant lies here.

1) Russian invasion of Ukraine started to occur in 2014, when Obama was in power when Russia STOLE Crimea from Ukraine.
- Donbas incursion also started in 2014.
- A treaty was signed in 2015, but was never ratified, if Trump was even remotely useful he would have pushed for that treaty during his term, but failed to do so.
- In 2017/2018 during the Trump administration, Trump allowed Russia to detain Ukraine vessels in Kirch Strait.
- In 2019 during the Trump administration, 110 Ukrainian soldiers were killed by Russia in the Donbas.
- In 2021 Russia started a MASSIVE military buildup along Ukraine borders which would be the start of the big invasion that we have all come to know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

2) Border policy is something I tend to have a conservative view on. I agree with Trumps policy, but I disagree that "immigration was under control".
It may have been better in places, but the system ended up being extremely back logged, under pressure and under-resourced.

Ironically, the USA statistically had it's lowest illegal immigrant numbers under Obama.

I do agree that a strong border is a requirement, but Trump building a "massive wall" like no-other failed to materialise and was even downgraded to a mere fence in places.
He also lied when he said he would get Mexico to pay for it.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/01/24/americas-border-crisis-summarised-in-ten-charts

3) The USA's financial crisis is a cumulative issue.
Barrack Obama stupidly increased debt by 9.3 Trillion... But that took him 8 years.
Donal Trump stupidly increased debt by 7.8 Trillion. But that only took 4 years.

Biden is nowhere near these two yet.

What this means is that debt wise... Trump failed to pay down the debt like he promised.

But debt is also not the devil either, especially when you are a sovereign nation with control over your currency, inflation devalues debt over time... But more debt means more printed money, which means more inflation.

The inflation issue is a world-wide issue due to run-away spending by all governments to cover costs during the Pandemic with added pressures from Agriculture, Manufacturing and Logistics placing large supply chain pressures, driving up costs.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/which-presidents-added-most-national-debt/
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111414/does-inflation-favor-lenders-or-borrowers.asp

The United States for example could pay all it's debts tomorrow if it wanted by printing excessive amounts of money driving up inflation, but your economy would also implode.

A balance needs to be struck... And Trump failed on that.

4) Biden took credit by removing restrictions which led to job growth? I mean, why not? It happened under his term.

The issue I see is that Trump is a narcissist... Whenever something "good" happens, even if it's outside his term, he takes credit for it.
If something "bad" happens during his term, it's always someone elses fault.

So where do you draw the line on blame and praise shifting?

I also find it comically funny how Trump will attack other politicians... For example:
"Rosie O’Donnell’s disgusting. I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob."

But then will whinge, cry and complain if it's returned in kind:
I.E: "“o politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/17/donald-trump-presidency-media-coverage-russia-scandal

Which proves he is a narcissist.
Read what the signs are here:
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/14-signs-of-narcissism

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

I am thinking for myself.  People on the TV and some numbers say everything is great.  I ain't parodying that.  I'm going by what I see and hear around me here in Western PA and what I see happening in other nations.  We had peace, energy independence, and spending power with Trump.  Biden shouldn't have taken credit for the jobs that came back post lockdown if he didn't want blame for the spending power lost.  Can't take the benefits that make your numbers look good without taking the blame on that stuff.  It's either all you or none of it is.

Everyone literally thinks for themselves.
Everyone literally gets their information from another source... We tend not to be researchers or scientists, we are literally consumers of media, even vgchartz is a form of mainstream media.

Then we use those sources of information to formulate certain stances and ideas on various topics.

The whole "I don't watch TV" is thus irrelevant.

You may be "switched off" to one type of media, but you are still blasted by it 24/7.

Turn on your car radio while going to work. - Mainstream media.

Jump on your phone and peruse Facebook. - Mainstream media.

Jump on a tablet and load up Youtube to watch a few videos? - Also mainstream media.

Go for a walk down the road? - You probably see billboards with various messaging, that is also mainstream media.

We live in a world dominated by mainstream media, TV isn't where it starts and stops... And those who claim they are "awake" because they ignore one type of media, but fornicate over another, simply aren't.

The only *real* way to get accurate, verifiable, repeatable information is by supporting the scientific method and scientific findings and scientific conclusions.

As for Trump... Speaking as one of the USA's closest allies and living independently of the USA, Trump made the USA look like a joke, he was a comedy act that just kept on giving.

And even though Biden seems incompetent, he has kept things stable and respectful.
I wouldn't want either of those candidates running my country, but I guess they are better than SCOMO that we had.

Another issue I have with Trump is that he will *constantly* repeat the same mistruths and false information until people literally start to believe it. Aka. Reality distortion field.

Any presidential candidate that has a criminal conviction should also be ineligible to run a nation. Any nation.
And trump has criminal convictions now.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Tober said:
Hiku said:

Would you like to start a war that the USA may get involved in under the president that dropped less bombs, or more bombs?

I have no clue on what you are implying here. Please be more specific, so my dumb brain can understand.

You previously said you believe Putin did not want to invade Ukraine while Trump was in charge, because he was in charge.
The same Trump you describe as having a more pacifistic approach to war. And instead, Putin chose to invade while USA was lead by the "more war hungry" Biden.

If you read my question again, do you understand it now?
And I would appreciate if you eventually reply to my other reply to you as well where I go more into detail about this, although I understand that you have many people to respond to, so no rush.



Hiku said:
Tober said:

I have no clue on what you are implying here. Please be more specific, so my dumb brain can understand.

You previously said you believe Putin did not want to invade Ukraine while Trump was in charge, because he was in charge.
The same Trump you describe as having a more pacifistic approach to war. And instead, Putin chose to invade while USA was lead by the "more war hungry" Biden.

If you read my question again, do you understand it now?
And I would appreciate if you eventually reply to my other reply to you as well where I go more into detail about this, although I understand that you have many people to respond to, so no rush.

Where did I say that "Putin did not want to invade Ukraine while Trump was in charge, because he was in charge."???

I pointed out the facts. When things happened.

I do have to apologize to you if missed a response from you. It's not always easy to keep track. Can you please re-post the other reply you are referring too.



zorg1000 said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

Yeah I'm a results guy.  Russia's invasion started once Biden got in.  Immigration was under control before.  I have about 1/40th the wealth I had when Biden took office and businesses all around agree, the economy sucks no matter what the numbers on the TV says.  Nobody has money.  The world is on the brink of WW3 and all the people that we were fearmongered would be aggressive with Trump have been moreso under Biden.  Also Biden did the slimiest thing ever by taking credit for jobs "created" by lifting shutdowns.  What a bunch of BS inflated numbers.

Immigration was under control? Did you start paying attention to politics just this year? Republicans have been complaining about the border my entire life.

You have 1/40th of your pre-Biden wealth? Do you have a bad gambling problem or something? Sounds like you have some serious financial responsibility issues you need to take of instead of blaming the president.

Sure, he’s exaggerating how much was a direct result of him but Biden taking credit for jobs during his presidency is the slimiest thing ever? Were you in a coma during Trump’s presidency and somehow continue to have no idea about the things he has said and done?

Overall it seems like you have trouble distinguishing between correlation and causation. Are you going to blame Biden for Roe being overturned simply because he was in office when it happened?

nope people just don't have disposable income anymore to spend on my business



I am Iron Man

sundin13 said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

The keystone pipeline was shut down, drilling is opposed here while still supported abroad, Trump dropped MOABs, Biden is clearly seen as more soft so they went after in 2014 and then again when he was in, and the shutdowns were democratic governors and you know damn well there would be lawsuits if Trump tried to stop them from doing what they did.  He did all he could and they decided to screw him economically and then try to give Biden credit for the recovery that was obviously always going to happen.  Talk about a lucky stroke to get a pandemic during an election year to crash the economy that had been roaring for real rather than this faux boom that nobody seems to be feeling.

If you truly believe that Putin invaded Ukraine because Biden was soft, how does the fact that the war has lasted longer and been more devastating to Russia than really anyone expected, factor into that calculus? I can't tell you what Putin was thinking when he invaded Ukraine, but if he was thinking that he could get away with it with minimum cost, he was clearly wrong. 

Why should we hold that against Biden any more than Trump (the man who continuously weakened NATO and repeatedly attempted to cut our financial support for Ukraine)?

if it was so weak with a supposed sympathetic govt. that wouldn't help you'd think he'd have invaded then



I am Iron Man

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Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
zorg1000 said:

Immigration was under control? Did you start paying attention to politics just this year? Republicans have been complaining about the border my entire life.

You have 1/40th of your pre-Biden wealth? Do you have a bad gambling problem or something? Sounds like you have some serious financial responsibility issues you need to take of instead of blaming the president.

Sure, he’s exaggerating how much was a direct result of him but Biden taking credit for jobs during his presidency is the slimiest thing ever? Were you in a coma during Trump’s presidency and somehow continue to have no idea about the things he has said and done?

Overall it seems like you have trouble distinguishing between correlation and causation. Are you going to blame Biden for Roe being overturned simply because he was in office when it happened?

nope people just don't have disposable income anymore to spend on my business

Don’t want to address any of the other topics?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Hiku said:
Tober said:

Russia invaded Ukraine after Trump left remember. The catalyst was to open the door for Ukraine to NATO that escalated the situation. But just as the above, sure we can speak through thought loops to blame Trump for that. That kind of reasoning can go any way and leaves us blind for the facts.

Trump was extremely soft on Putin and Russia. He even stood on stage, and in front of the world undermined his own US intelligence by proclaiming he believed Putin over them. It was beyond parody.

What reason is there to believe that Putin would not have invaded Ukraine when he had the US president doing exactly what he wanted? Especially because Trump stated he wanted USA to leave NATO.

If anything, Putin was waiting for Trump to deliver on that front. And invade once USA was out of NATO.
Russia already invaded Ukraine in 2014. Were they afraid of Ukraine joining NATO back then too? That likely has little to nothing to do with it. Because Putin STRENGTHENED the NATO threat on their border through his invasion, by essentially forcing the long standing neutral countries of Finland and Sweden to join. A very predictable outcome.

Putin wants to restore Russia. That is the primary reason he's "taking back land that belonged to Russia in the past".

The assosication that "no attack under Trump = thanks to him" is really wild.

There was a bear attack in the neighborhood 30 years ago. After we got new mailboxes, there hasn't been a single bear attack in 30 years. Must be thanks to them.

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

The keystone pipeline was shut down, drilling is opposed here while still supported abroad, Trump dropped MOABs, Biden is clearly seen as more soft so they went after in 2014 and then again when he was in,

@Robert_Downey_Jr. 

Wait, are you crediting Trump for the keystone pipeline shut down?
There's no way.... He tried to do the exact opposite, but had his attempt blocked.

Where do you get your news that you believe the guy that was trying his hardest to help Putin with the pipeline is responsible for shutting it down?

What's next?
Osama Bin Laden tried to save people from a collapsing building?

Everything I said above in this same post to Tober applies to you as well btw.
Please read it...

It's strange to hear "Trump didn't start any new wars but Biden did", and yet at the same time accuse Biden of being the "soft one" on the subject of war (Ukraine).

nope Biden is to blame for that dumb decision.  I never implied otherwise.  Forgot his botched retreat from Afghanistan too.  I don't care that trump ordered a retreat.  The execution was an F though the decision was an A.  Not sure how Biden messed that up so badly



I am Iron Man

Tober said:
Hiku said:

You previously said you believe Putin did not want to invade Ukraine while Trump was in charge, because he was in charge.
The same Trump you describe as having a more pacifistic approach to war. And instead, Putin chose to invade while USA was lead by the "more war hungry" Biden.

If you read my question again, do you understand it now?
And I would appreciate if you eventually reply to my other reply to you as well where I go more into detail about this, although I understand that you have many people to respond to, so no rush.

Where did I say that "Putin did not want to invade Ukraine while Trump was in charge, because he was in charge."???

I pointed out the facts. When things happened.

I do have to apologize to you if missed a response from you. It's not always easy to keep track. Can you please re-post the other reply you are referring too.

Before that, let me ask you, why did you say "Russia invaded Ukraine after Trump left remember"?
I might have missed some context since you guys have been replying to each other for a bit.

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

nope Biden is to blame for that dumb decision.  I never implied otherwise.  Forgot his botched retreat from Afghanistan too.  I don't care that trump ordered a retreat.  The execution was an F though the decision was an A.  Not sure how Biden messed that up so badly

Well, at least that's a relief then.



Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
sundin13 said:

If you truly believe that Putin invaded Ukraine because Biden was soft, how does the fact that the war has lasted longer and been more devastating to Russia than really anyone expected, factor into that calculus? I can't tell you what Putin was thinking when he invaded Ukraine, but if he was thinking that he could get away with it with minimum cost, he was clearly wrong. 

Why should we hold that against Biden any more than Trump (the man who continuously weakened NATO and repeatedly attempted to cut our financial support for Ukraine)?

if it was so weak with a supposed sympathetic govt. that wouldn't help you'd think he'd have invaded then

I have already provided the empirical evidence that the war in Ukraine started before Biden was in power... Making your point redundant/a lie.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

if it was so weak with a supposed sympathetic govt. that wouldn't help you'd think he'd have invaded then

I have already provided the empirical evidence that the war in Ukraine started before Biden was in power... Making your point redundant/a lie.

The buildup.  not the war



I am Iron Man