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sundin13 said:
BFR said:

I am unfamiliar with any updated guidance stating that anything less than an N95 was ineffective (although efficacy does vary by fit and construction) or any guidance where they ever said that N95 masks were ineffective. 

I would love to see a source for these claims as when I search for the most up to date guidance from the CDC, I still see them providing information maintaining the same perspective on masks. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/14/health/cloth-masks-covid-cdc.html

The CDC Is Finally Acknowledging That N95 Respirators Work Better Than Cloth Masks

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), whose previous advice about face coverings as a safeguard against COVID-19 paid little attention to large differences in the effectiveness of different mask types, recently revised its guidance to acknowledge that N95 respirators work better than reusable cloth masks or disposable surgical masks. As with earlier changes in CDC guidance, it is not exactly clear why the agency waited so long to highlight useful information about COVID-19, although the spread of the highly transmissible omicron variant may have something to do with it."

https://reason.com/2022/01/19/the-cdc-is-finally-acknowledging-that-n95-respirators-work-better-than-cloth-masks/



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Then we have the WHO, who are actually less useful than the CDC.

"The World Health Organization's (WHO's) newly updated COVID-19 prevention and control guidelines purport to protect healthcare workers, patients, and the community, but some experts say they may encourage risky behavior by propagating long-disproven ideas about how viruses spread.

Nor does the document fully recognize that N95 respirators offer better protection against the virus than medical, or surgical, masks. Rather, it says the Guideline Development Group (GDG) "considered the evidence for particular respirators versus medical masks and agreed that the strength of this evidence was insufficient to recommend one mask over another except in some specific conditions."

Masks are good as source control for coughing and sneezing, but if a virus is truly airborne, as we think this coronavirus is, while it's useful, it's not adequately protective.  David Michaels, PhD, MPH

Brosseau said, "There's so much laboratory and workplace research that shows how much better a respirator works than a mask. Medical masks and respirators don't have the same filters, and medical masks leak through their filters a lot. They may be similar in capturing large particles, but in small particles, medical masks are very leaky, so it doesn't really matter how it fits on your face, many of the small particles are still going to exit through the filter and around the facepiece."

Michaels agreed, saying, "Masks are good as source control for coughing and sneezing, but if a virus is truly airborne, as we think this coronavirus is, while it's useful, it's not adequately protective."

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/updated-who-covid-prevention-guidance-may-endanger-rather-protect-some-experts-say

 January 26, 2024



Face masks made ‘little to no difference’ in preventing spread of COVID: study

"The stance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on face masks has taken many twists and turns throughout the COVID pandemic.

After initially claiming face coverings weren’t necessary, the CDC changed course in April 2020, calling on all Americans — even children as young as 2 — to mask up."

Now, a new scientific review — led by 12 researchers from esteemed universities around the world — suggests that widespread masking may have done little to nothing to curb the transmission of COVID-19.

When comparing the use of medical/surgical masks to wearing no masks, the review found that “wearing a mask may make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like illness/COVID-like illness (nine studies; 276,917 people); and probably makes little or no difference in how many people have flu/COVID confirmed by a laboratory test (six studies; 13,919 people).”

Next, the review compared medical/surgical masks to N95 respirators (or P2 respirators, which are used in Europe).

It found that “wearing N95/P2 respirators probably makes little to no difference in how many people have confirmed flu (five studies; 8407 people); and may make little to no difference in how many people catch a flu-like illness (five studies; 8407 people), or respiratory illness (three studies; 7799 people).”

https://nypost.com/2023/02/14/face-masks-made-little-to-no-difference-in-preventing-covid-study/



And don't get me going on the 6 ft. social distancing crap.

Fauci said it wasn’t his job to stop unproved 6-foot rule during pandemic

Dr. Anthony Fauci told lawmakers Monday there was no scientific basis for the 6-foot social distancing rule during the height of the coronavirus pandemic, but said it wasn’t his call to shut the idea down.

The former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said the rule was developed during the early days when researchers believed the virus was chiefly transmitted by droplets. It later became clear that it was aerosolized, which undercut the idea behind the distance rule.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jun/3/dr-anthony-fauci-said-it-wasnt-his-job-to-stop-unp/



Hey look guys, I got the FB invite to this party. Kinda makes up for me not getting the FB invite to Kenley's 18th birthday party back in February 2021 !!!

(responding to my anti-FB posts in another political thread here).

Last edited by BFR - 5 days ago

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BFR said:

Face masks made ‘little to no difference’ in preventing spread of COVID: study

"The stance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on face masks has taken many twists and turns throughout the COVID pandemic.

After initially claiming face coverings weren’t necessary, the CDC changed course in April 2020, calling on all Americans — even children as young as 2 — to mask up."

Now, a new scientific review — led by 12 researchers from esteemed universities around the world — suggests that widespread masking may have done little to nothing to curb the transmission of COVID-19.

When comparing the use of medical/surgical masks to wearing no masks, the review found that “wearing a mask may make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like illness/COVID-like illness (nine studies; 276,917 people); and probably makes little or no difference in how many people have flu/COVID confirmed by a laboratory test (six studies; 13,919 people).”

Next, the review compared medical/surgical masks to N95 respirators (or P2 respirators, which are used in Europe).

It found that “wearing N95/P2 respirators probably makes little to no difference in how many people have confirmed flu (five studies; 8407 people); and may make little to no difference in how many people catch a flu-like illness (five studies; 8407 people), or respiratory illness (three studies; 7799 people).”

https://nypost.com/2023/02/14/face-masks-made-little-to-no-difference-in-preventing-covid-study/

This NY Post article doesn't seem to name or link the actual study that they were quoting from. 

The original authors basically made an apology in how this study was misleading. 

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/how-the-cochrane-review-went-wrong-report-questioning-covid-masks-blows-up-prompts-apology/article_80b67196-5872-5b1a-a208-b0a525f8de5b.html

"But the goal of the review wasn’t to look at just masks, it looked at a range of “physical interventions,” including screening at ports, quarantine, physical distancing and glasses. In most studies, most people didn’t actually go along with the interventions. People were often not required to wear masks, but were “encouraged to do so.” In one study, the participants wore them at work, but not in their personal lives. Generally, the number of people who wore masks was low."

This discusses a bunch of the issues with the article:

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/yes-masks-reduce-risk-spreading-covid-despite-review-saying-they-dont

"An RCT comparing occasional versus continuous use of respirators in health care workers showed N95 respirators and surgical masks were equally ineffective when only worn occasionally by hospital workers. They had to wear them all the time at work to be protected."

Last edited by the-pi-guy - 5 days ago

BFR said:
sundin13 said:

I am unfamiliar with any updated guidance stating that anything less than an N95 was ineffective (although efficacy does vary by fit and construction) or any guidance where they ever said that N95 masks were ineffective. 

I would love to see a source for these claims as when I search for the most up to date guidance from the CDC, I still see them providing information maintaining the same perspective on masks. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/14/health/cloth-masks-covid-cdc.html

The CDC Is Finally Acknowledging That N95 Respirators Work Better Than Cloth Masks

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), whose previous advice about face coverings as a safeguard against COVID-19 paid little attention to large differences in the effectiveness of different mask types, recently revised its guidance to acknowledge that N95 respirators work better than reusable cloth masks or disposable surgical masks. As with earlier changes in CDC guidance, it is not exactly clear why the agency waited so long to highlight useful information about COVID-19, although the spread of the highly transmissible omicron variant may have something to do with it."

https://reason.com/2022/01/19/the-cdc-is-finally-acknowledging-that-n95-respirators-work-better-than-cloth-masks/

"Work better" ≠ only.

It was always known that N95 masks "work better". You claimed that the CDC said they only worked, which is not the case here.  



BFR said:

And don't get me going on the 6 ft. social distancing crap.

Fauci said it wasn’t his job to stop unproved 6-foot rule during pandemic

Dr. Anthony Fauci told lawmakers Monday there was no scientific basis for the 6-foot social distancing rule during the height of the coronavirus pandemic, but said it wasn’t his call to shut the idea down.

The former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said the rule was developed during the early days when researchers believed the virus was chiefly transmitted by droplets. It later became clear that it was aerosolized, which undercut the idea behind the distance rule.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jun/3/dr-anthony-fauci-said-it-wasnt-his-job-to-stop-unp/

Social distancing obviously works, the 6 feet in particular is somewhat arbitrary. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2024/06/21/g-s1-5705/coronavirus-faw-if-youre-still-trying-to-stay-covid-safe-does-the-6-food-rule-matter

"In the late 1800s, scientists asked people to rinse their mouths with bacteria (editor’s note: yuk) and then just … talk. Crazy!

And what happened? “They saw bacteria landing on plates up to a distance of about 6 feet away,” says Linsey Marr, an aerosols expert and professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech.

“But, if they waited longer — several hours -- to collect the plates, allowing time for respiratory particles to drift around the room and settle, they saw bacteria landing on plates much farther than 6 feet away," she adds.

So yeah, 6 feet is not a magic number for avoiding airborne pathogens.

It’s not like if you go one inch further you’re suddenly in a danger zone. It’s more like a speed limit, suggests Dr. Abraar Karan, a infectious disease fellow at Stanford University. “There’s no data to say 55 mph is significantly safer than 56. But you have to have a cutoff that’s reasonable.”"

"Why distance does still matter

Here’s the thing: Even with this revised understanding of the spread of COVID, the closer you are to the person with COVID, the higher your risk of catching it.

“As you get farther away from the infected person, aerosols become more diluted, so the chance of inhaling [particles] usually goes down with distance,” says Marr."



Cloth masks were essentially useless against Covid-19.

"Cloth masks have been used in healthcare and community settings to protect the wearer from respiratory infections. The use of cloth masks during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic is under debate. The filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators; however, cloth masks may provide some protection if well designed and used correctly. Multilayer cloth masks, designed to fit around the face and made of water-resistant fabric with a high number of threads and finer weave, may provide reasonable protection. Until a cloth mask design is proven to be equally effective as a medical or N95 mask, wearing cloth masks should not be mandated for healthcare workers. In community settings, however, cloth masks may be used to prevent community spread of infections by sick or asymptomatically infected persons, and the public should be educated about their correct use."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7510705/



BFR said:

Cloth masks were essentially useless against Covid-19.

"Cloth masks have been used in healthcare and community settings to protect the wearer from respiratory infections. The use of cloth masks during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic is under debate. The filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators; however, cloth masks may provide some protection if well designed and used correctly. Multilayer cloth masks, designed to fit around the face and made of water-resistant fabric with a high number of threads and finer weave, may provide reasonable protection. Until a cloth mask design is proven to be equally effective as a medical or N95 mask, wearing cloth masks should not be mandated for healthcare workers. In community settings, however, cloth masks may be used to prevent community spread of infections by sick or asymptomatically infected persons, and the public should be educated about their correct use."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7510705/

Did you mean to link a different study? The one you linked says the opposite.