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Forums - Gaming - Where do you stand on Microsoft buying Activision/Blizzard?

 

For or against the acquisition?

For 58 41.43%
 
Against 54 38.57%
 
Neutral 28 20.00%
 
Total:140
ConservagameR said:
ConservagameR said:

The thing to do would be to stop the AB acquisition, and force AB to split things up if they want to sell, and then let companies bid. How the timing of the sales was handled along with the bidding is another thing, but this would be the better start. More would have to follow and soon enough. You can't just have this for right now and hold it to gaming related business.

Something I should've said in my post above.^

Another option might be to leave the money and timing side of it alone, and focus on the exclusivity side for mostly gaming business.

Have some type of rules and regulations where from this point forward, any multiplatform third party IP must remain multi platform no matter what. That way MS, Sony, or whoever, could buy whatever third party devs and IP they wanted, but had to keep it multiplatform if it wasn't exclusive already. This wouldn't stop third parties from making exclusive games. As a totally separate third party, or purchased yet separate like Bungie, they could make exclusive games if they choose using new IP.

This could be loopholed though. They could buy some multiplatform IP and just copy a bunch of it, change the (franchise) title, and make it exclusive. They might even close down some newly acquired third parties and create a new studio with them to do just this. That would be quite a lot of time and effort just to make something exclusive, so odds are it wouldn't happen very often, due to it being an old IP seen as brand new IP by consumers, so it's something you probably wouldn't really have to worry about much.

Id go for this. All 3rd party games should come to PC day and date. No more of sonys way of keeping things away for 6 months to a year from pc. And they should all come to other consoles too.



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SKMBlake said:

I'm more concerned by Disney buying everybody than Microsoft adding its name to an already 3 headed company.

Honestly i dont understand how everyone else here cant see this same thing.

Its like what i said just cause this deal cost more doesnt mean anything when you have a market like the movies thats being eating alive.



The Fury said:

I just think some of the arguments being made are beyond petty, "such and such company does this, so why shouldn't this company?". They do, they always have. If you think this is about anything other than money and control, be real. I am actually fine with whatever happens. I do not play any Activision games and the Blizzard ones I do are either out, announced or long since out on other platforms. Even then I can sign up to PC Gamepass and instead of paying £60 for a new game, I can pay £1.

Yet, MS are not some underdog in the console/games industry. They are the 2nd biggest tech company in the world. They once tried to buy Nintendo. They are not your friend.

Sony isnt your friend too so get over yourself and stop thinking they are..



RolStoppable said:
LurkerJ said:

Has everyone missed announcements like the outer world 2, Redfall, Hellblade 2, Starfield, Avowed? Phil's all but confirming the elder scroll 6 as xbox exclusive? the fact that Microsoft initially promised Call of Duty would remain on PS for three years before stretching it to 10? 

If you don't want to engage with my question because you think I don't have enough proof that MS will weaponise these acquisitions, then that's fine. But to ask me a question in return that we already know is based on a false premise is a bit odd, ain't it? 

These announcements aren't any different to how Sony has handled things. I fail to see how what Microsoft is doing is worse than anything Sony has done.

It's just that we've been coming off a period where the funding had been cut for the Xbox division and the vast majority of third party deals had been made by Sony, and now that the playing field has been leveled, it's somehow worse.

The current trajectory is that both PS and Xbox will become redundant consoles, because both console manufacturers will put their games on the PC. Microsoft all of them day 1, Sony with delays of varying degrees. That's why I don't see a real problem for gamers here. The weaponising you speak of would first and foremost be against Sony, but not so much gamers.

What are the negative consequences you see for gamers?

What about the XB One TV trajectory? What about Kinect? Which led to XB One X. Which led to Game Pass. Which led to XB Series S and X at once. Looks like MS just keeps trying new things until hopefully something catches on. 

Game Pass isn't anywhere near successful enough to clearly be the final direction MS will definitely end up going and not anytime soon. It's the general direction they look to want now, but what they wanted in 2013 didn't work out. With Game Pass now, even Zenimax and AB won't be near enough.

This is where the problem continues. Will MS really push new in house studios and IP if they have decided to just buy everything asap? The more MS consolidates within Game Pass, the more it'll make sense for Sony to acquire and make exclusive, because why else go to PS if it's all available on XB anyway? This will also make MS want to continue to acquire because they'll end up in a similar situation as they've been in, behind PS in content and exclusives.

You wouldn't see this leading to Sony buying up whatever they can and locking it down, especially IP that XB players now have access to or would enjoy? It would be XB's doing by forcing their hand. Even more so for anyone else trying to get into the gaming arena. They'll need exclusives to bring people in so they'll have to buy sooner than later and lock that IP down so they don't end up like Stadia (which had other problems as well).

Sony didn't start making really big acquisitions until MS did. Prior, Sony was making smaller, much more reasonable purchases, and building slowly from there in house. MS is tossing $10B here, $70B there, and Sony can't come close to competing with that. Maybe Sony could make 1 really large somewhat competitive purchase, but that would drain their entire PS budget for years.

There's the fact that MS will make more money next year than Sony will over the next decade, so if XB is allowed to keep buying, they can buy till it becomes a major monopoly problem, and then money hat almost everything else third party as exclusive so nobody else can have it unless they outright purchase it, if they can.

Also, even if you're correct, and XB and PS only offer their services on PC eventually, who owns Azure and Windows? Don't see that ever being a problem if not a serious concern for other competitors?



LurkerJ said:
EpicRandy said:

Why MS made the legally binding deals is irrelevant to those who will benefit from it. Also, MS stated prior to the backlash they were not going to remove CoD from the competition. No company will try to purchase another and offer legally binding concessions before they are/appear to be a necessity. So yeah MS made those as a result of the challenge they face but it is all but normal and expected.

"Using the number of employees each company has to argue for the acquisition is looking away from the bigger picture and using a single metric in isolation to get a favourable outcome"

well, if you isolate that argument from the others and than argue it's a single metric in isolation it's disingenuous, I have not isolated this argument but completed it with the rest of my argumentation.

"Just like portraying CoD as the only issue with this merger"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/634536048fa8f5153767e533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf

  • Consumer is mentioned 14 times
  • Sony is mentioned 70 times
  • Call of Duty also abbreviated as CoD is mentioned 156 times

While it is not their only argument it revolves predominantly around it and it is by far their main one.

"These acquisitions come with legacy ever-green IPs, you can do a lot more damage to the competition with much less number of employees by simply relying on this legacy."

Yeah but MS offered assurance it won't, offered legally binding one at that. If that was the concern, Sony would sit with them and try to make Microsoft offer the same kind of deal from Diablo, Wow, Overwatch ... but all they give is silence apparently.

"As for the prevailing argument you see from the other side, I have not made this argument myself, and I have already stated SONY has indulged in objectionable practices repeatedly and continue to do so. Microsoft possibilities shouldn't be limited by what SONY has or hasn't done, but it 100% should be limited by regulation that seek to prevent monopoly over the industry. "

And I agree 100%. Though one would hope a decision on this would be devoid of political interference and factually based which is completely contrary to what we've seen with the FTC decision and reasons.

EpicRandy said:

To further my opinion on a more personal note rather than a legal one
I believe this deal is good for

  • Microsoft/Xbox
  • Activision Blizzard
  • Workers at Activision Blizzard
  • Union advocate
  • Gamepass
  • Gamapass Users
  • Switch and future next Nintendo system owner
  • Steam User
  • Anyone who wants the Acti-Blizz management/work culture to change
  • Anyone who hopes for a possibility of Activision Blizzard studios to even consider being creative again
  • Playstation plus user (Only if Sony accepts the deal and benefits from CoD on PlayStation plus day 1 as Ms offered)

It is neutral for

  • Any third party as Take two made clear
  • Anyone who doesn't subscribe/wants to subscribe to GamePass (as all the games will still be available for purchase)

It is bad for:

  • Sony*


But even then it is only bad for their ability to sell ps5+ with limited competition from the Xbox series+ system and their ability to grow their margin profits unchallenged.
Even if the deal goes through it won't:

  • Make Uncharted, God of War, Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, and Last of Us ... fans disappear
  • inhibit the ability for Sony to create and release new games for their system and/or PC
  • prevent Sony from making other acquisitions and they've made quite a few this year and will continue to do so by their statement
  • prevent Sony from bolstering its offering (PlayStation + wise as well as a standard sale) 
  • Remove CoD from their offering
  • Make Xbox anywhere near the point of a monopoly 

Also, the impact on Sony is already mitigated by:

  • The fact they are the one who benefits from a dominant position as of now.
  • The fact that many Acti-Blizz projects are already announced for Ps5 and MS will respect all of those (ex: Diablo 4)
  • The impact of this won't be felt for many years and won't come all at once

If Sony were to fight for their user here and not for their margins IMO they would try to strike a deal with MS not only for CoD but most of Acti-Blizz's existing franchises (Diablo, overwatch, Crash...) and I believe MS would agree to all these. The fact that Sony remains silent on those and focuses only on CoD makes me believe they themselves don't believe MS would make any of those exclusive after the deal goes through. 

"Why MS made the legally binding deals is irrelevant to those who will benefit from it". 

It really does though, as the rest of your post shows, the mere fact that the FTC is questioning the buyout is bothering a lot of you for no good reason at all. It's like, here is the biggest buyout in tech history, approve it or get accused of "getting political" and "interfering". So it is important to show that this "interference", regardless of the motivation behind it, is already yielding better outcomes for everyone. 

"Consumer is mentioned 14 times, Sony is mentioned 70 times, Call of Duty also abbreviated as CoD is mentioned 156 times"

I feel like of what you argue is relying on buzzwords, headlines and pure good faith in the largest or the 2nd largest tech company in the world that has proven and documented anti-competitive behaviour in the past. 

You're also heavily relying on converging arguments and lines of thoughts a lot of what you say ends up being random.

Basically what you're doing here is the following "CoD is the main argument, here is a document with the following stats that proves it". You don't even mention that this is the CMA document, not SONY's, not that it matters who wrote it anyway! It doesn't matter because the simple fact is that Bethesda/Activision have some of the biggest IPs in history that can majorly change the outcome of console sales even if CoD remains multiplatform for good, therefore, it doesn't matter who's arguing what, it doesn't change the facts.

I also believe these arguments happen to be too convenient for Microsoft to keep the narrative around CoD going and ignore the much bigger picture, so whoever is using this argument, they need to do a better job because it only helps MS in my opinion to keep the story too focused on CoD. 

"Yeah but MS offered assurance it won't, offered legally binding one at that. If that was the concern, Sony would sit with them and try to make Microsoft offer the same kind of deal from Diablo, Wow, Overwatch ... but all they give is silence apparently." 

"Yes and no logics tell me they won't try a deal on that scale anymore unless this one does not pass"

"If Sony were to fight for their user here and not for their margins IMO they would try to strike a deal with MS not only for CoD but most of Acti-Blizz's existing franchises (Diablo, overwatch, Crash...) and I believe MS would agree to all these"

Another great examples of you relying on the good will of a giant corporation, while completely ignoring statements made by the giant corporation themselves. Again, MS has said it will be "case by case" basis, and until very recently, the narrative by MS has been "we're not done with acquisitions". So much so that the "who should MS acquire next?" has become recurrent theme in many xbox threads (including the xbox empire on vgc). But here you are, asking me to dismiss all of that and in addition, you are also telling me SONY can secure all other IPs for 10 years if they sat down with MS because you believe it and because you believe that Microsoft is only going to acquire other publishers if this one fails despite their publicly declared intents.

Sorry, I don't think you're actually convinced with your own statements, they're just... too naive and I don't believe you are naive. Honestly, I can't believe some are making these arguments, even if we lived in a world in which MS hasn't publicly declared their intents.

"And I agree 100%. Though one would hope a decision on this would be devoid of political interference and factually based which is completely contrary to what we've seen with the FTC decision and reasons."

Well, it would be a nicer world indeed if money and ulterior motives didn't influence politics, but honestly, if you actually think about, letting this acquisition pass without scrutiny is a bigger telltale signs of political interference, because it indicates that someone isn't looking at the biggest tech merger ever when that someone's sole job is to look into these sorts of things.

Moreover, Tech giants, including Apple, FB, MS, Tesla have become experts at influencing these sorts of decisions and lobbying governments around the world, by far one of the biggest spenders out there and they increase their lobbying spendings year over year. So even if these challenges are raised against the acquisition are driven by lobbyists, MS shouldn't complain someone else is using their tactics to influence regulators decisions. 

Why make this troll treat if your not going to answer the questions in good fate and not skip to your Blah blah blah nonsense. You didnt even answer the questions just gave more of them yourself. Really if your not going to reply and answere the things put before you and then reply to them things and except them your doing nothing other then making a silly thread that you dont plan on standing by at all or listening to other peoples opinions other then your own.



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EpicRandy said:
Kyuu said:

[...]

"It's easier to get away with fucked up practices or at least dial back on "pro-consumer" stuff when you have a massive catalogue of popular games that people will trade their testicles for, that's just common sense."

Easier maybe but would also come with opportunities for competition.

"MS's game lineup upon ABK's acquisition should beat Sony and even Nintendo's in popularity (potentially even if they left Playstation)"

Yeah that's called competition, Ms saw an opportunity to up their game and took it.

"I know enough about Microsoft's other divisions, the history of Xbox, and the market to form reasonable opinions or expectations."

I know enough to know MS don't want to fuck up anymore and don't want to geopardise the success of GamePass on some short term gain anti-consumer practice.

"Sony is capable of getting away with worse practices than before, because they over the years built a really strong lineup of 1st party content that complements the excellent 3rd party support which Microsoft acquisitions are now threatening to weaken" 

Yeah that's called competition

"Then you've got Nintendo which doesn't even bother price dropping their hardware or software, never mind putting their new games on a subscription service. Both Sony and Nintendo could get away with things that MS didn't have the luxury to consider, because Xbox's software was decidedly inferior that they had to fall back on value/consumer-friendliness selling points or else they're fucked."

So your against the deal because MS might in the future be able to do what Nintendo and Sony does right now?

"The New MS with the smaller acquisitions + Mojang + Zenimax/Bethesda + ABK isn't the same small player whose entire selling point is for-the-consumer and value. They'll have "other options" to consider, and this is the part that's making Sony panic, and the part that could lead to more unnecessary "revenge-acquisitions" and wastes of money that could have gone to cultivating and establishing countless developers and talents."

Sony's panic is due to its dominant position being challenged but that's how a competitive market is supposed to work. One actor gets a dominant position than an underdog react (propose a new business line, innovate, merge with other) and try to take the lead. That's just part of competition in action.

"If I understood you correctly, you said Sony putting their games day 1 on PS+ is 99% more likely than MS toning down their day and date releases (or something along these lines). Starfield should be a good test to see what kind of impact being on a service day 1 does to the sales performance of a game with a great potential (I'm pretending/assuming Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite never had potential). If the impact on sales is too significant (exiting most charts not long post release), Sony would be less eager to try out Microsoft's model.

Microsoft's "number of players" are padded statistics that don't mean much to Sony or Nintendo. MS has to prove that their games are "selling" gangbusters despite being on GamePass, and only then will the idea of Sony putting their games on PS+ day 1 be feasible for them. They're not going to trade traditional sales for an increase in subs (and neither will Nintendo lol).

Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite both underperformed sales wise. If Starfield underperforms too, MS may consider other options, and Sony won't copy them. Just my opinion."

I think Forza Horizon 5 and halo infinite sold better than you think outside of GamePass, also your to dismissive of the value they bring through GamePass by the way of new subscriptions and retention of current users. Even if Starfield sold 0 copies outside of GamePass but bring value that MS estimated as greater than the title's budget through GamePass it's still a success.

That part was golden "So your against the deal because MS might in the future be able to do what Nintendo and Sony does right now?" this right here sums up pretty much every Sony fan thats against this deal imo. Its pure gold.



zero129 said:
ConservagameR said:

Something I should've said in my post above.^

Another option might be to leave the money and timing side of it alone, and focus on the exclusivity side for mostly gaming business.

Have some type of rules and regulations where from this point forward, any multiplatform third party IP must remain multi platform no matter what. That way MS, Sony, or whoever, could buy whatever third party devs and IP they wanted, but had to keep it multiplatform if it wasn't exclusive already. This wouldn't stop third parties from making exclusive games. As a totally separate third party, or purchased yet separate like Bungie, they could make exclusive games if they choose using new IP.

This could be loopholed though. They could buy some multiplatform IP and just copy a bunch of it, change the (franchise) title, and make it exclusive. They might even close down some newly acquired third parties and create a new studio with them to do just this. That would be quite a lot of time and effort just to make something exclusive, so odds are it wouldn't happen very often, due to it being an old IP seen as brand new IP by consumers, so it's something you probably wouldn't really have to worry about much.

Id go for this. All 3rd party games should come to PC day and date. No more of sonys way of keeping things away for 6 months to a year from pc. And they should all come to other consoles too.

As long as a PS console exists, I don't see Sony allowing games to go straight to PC right away. They'll likely always have some sort of launch date separation between platforms. As long as the wait isn't too long, then I don't see the problem if the games are ported well and are worth it.

I think this actually works, because even when it comes to who owns what prior third parties, they all will have to play relatively nicely with sharing games between platforms and how much they charge each other or it could get messy quick.

It would also force MS to get serious for once about new in house IP. They've been seriously lacking that for a long time. There wouldn't be much Sony could buy and keep as exclusive either.



zero129 said:
ConservagameR said:

You can't let XB have this and tell PS or anyone else large enough that they can't retaliate. You maybe could've made the argument for that with a Zenimax sized acquisition, but not after dropping $70B all at once on AB. 

If this goes through you can almost be certain everyone will retaliate in some form. I'd bet the odds are good that would likely mean going after whatever else is on the market that XB would want and could have in the future. Meaning someone like Sony would be less likely to acquire Japanese companies and would likely go after Western instead, assuming they see a positive business case for it.

I'd rather this not be the case, even though Sony would probably leave those newly acquired games as multiplatform as well, but you can't let MS get away with that now and stop everyone else.

The thing to do would be to stop the AB acquisition, and force AB to split things up if they want to sell, and then let companies bid. How the timing of the sales was handled along with the bidding is another thing, but this would be the better start. More would have to follow and soon enough. You can't just have this for right now and hold it to gaming related business.

Do you honestly think Sony or any of them other companys where not planning on buying more companys anyway?.

As for Sony, sure, they probably had idea's about what they might acquire in the future, but what MS is doing will no doubt change who, how many, and how much for Sony.

Sony's only somewhat large buy was Bungie and that was fairly recent. Other than that they make much smaller purchases and grow those studios.

Sony will have little choice but to buy as much as they can asap if MS keeps buying as well, especially the massive acquisitions that Sony would struggle to be able to make.

The more competitive MS becomes, the more Sony will try to keep ahead, and MS is dictating the speed and how that happens right now, which will be much more consolidation.



ConservagameR said:
zero129 said:

Id go for this. All 3rd party games should come to PC day and date. No more of sonys way of keeping things away for 6 months to a year from pc. And they should all come to other consoles too.

As long as a PS console exists, I don't see Sony allowing games to go straight to PC right away. They'll likely always have some sort of launch date separation between platforms. As long as the wait isn't too long, then I don't see the problem if the games are ported well and are worth it.

I think this actually works, because even when it comes to who owns what prior third parties, they all will have to play relatively nicely with sharing games between platforms and how much they charge each other or it could get messy quick.

It would also force MS to get serious for once about new in house IP. They've been seriously lacking that for a long time. There wouldn't be much Sony could buy and keep as exclusive either.

I think it will and ill tell you why

1 Sony isnt doing cross gen Ms is = Sony has have more cross gen exclusives then ms have.

2 Sony will never release their first party games on Pc like MS = sony started releasing their first party games on Pc.

3 Sony will never release their games before 2-4 years on Pc = Sony have started releasing their games on PC within 6 to 12 months.

4 Sony will never have day and date = thats still up in the air but i think they will.



ConservagameR said:
zero129 said:

Do you honestly think Sony or any of them other companys where not planning on buying more companys anyway?.

As for Sony, sure, they probably had idea's about what they might acquire in the future, but what MS is doing will no doubt change who, how many, and how much for Sony.

Sony's only somewhat large buy was Bungie and that was fairly recent. Other than that they make much smaller purchases and grow those studios.

Sony will have little choice but to buy as much as they can asap if MS keeps buying as well, especially the massive acquisitions that Sony would struggle to be able to make.

The more competitive MS becomes, the more Sony will try to keep ahead, and MS is dictating the speed and how that happens right now, which will be much more consolidation.

Honestly i dont think this changes anything Sony was planning on buying. Whatever they where going to buy they will still do it.