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Machiavellian said:
Ryuu96 said:

The CMA made their mind up from day one and just came up with any shitty reason to block the deal, then started having 2nd thoughts when the FTC got clapped in court (and the EC didn't have their back) and now want to change their mind but use a cover instead of admitting to them making a mistake, it's a "new" merger evaluation they say, but it really isn't, they could have had these proposals in the 1st one, Lol.

I remember Brad Smith statement on the difference between the CMA and the EU.  He specifically stated how the EU voiced their concerns and worked with MS to address them while the CMA pretty much closed up shop then out of the blue threw out their judgement basically giving the impression the the CMA never was interested in approving the deal.

Exactly, that's what is looking to be transpiring here and it's a clear breach of due process and fairness. 

This is also evidenced by the fact there's simply no way MS values the cloud gaming scene in the UK more than this transaction, so simply put, if push came to shove, MS would have proposed anything up to dropping their cloud venture in the UK and it's in fact exactly what's they are proposing now. The fact that they did not propose such before points to the CMA not giving a proper signal to MS during negotiation.

This is terrible optics for the CMA, if they don't succeed with a stay they'll be forced to speed things up and settle out of court with MS ASAP. The implication of them losing a CAT appeal when there are clear signs of partisan shenanigans in their previous findings is really bad IMO. The new rules set that may come out of a verdict can be scathing and have for effect a change in procedure and/or power attributed to the CMA Which the CMA would want to avoid at all costs.



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What I'm gathering is there's 3 scenarios.

  • Judge Quashes = Restarts the whole process for CMA's investigation.
  • Judge Refuses to Delay CAT Trial = Goes to CAT and likely gets quashed, restarting the whole process as above.
  • Allow Microsoft & CMA to Continue Talks = Come to an agreement in the next few weeks.

Bottom is what MS/CMA are arguing for, the top 2 seem to be where the Judge is leaning right now because MS/CMA are doing a poor job at convincing him with a lack of hard evidence as to why the CAT trial should be delayed other than "trust us bro" because CMA won't admit their mistake and Microsoft won't reveal details about the final deal. Microsoft wants the bottom because it's by far the fastest route, CMA wants it because they get to save face, Lol. But they aren't giving the Judge the proper evidence to justify an adjournment.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 July 2023

EpicRandy said:
Machiavellian said:

I remember Brad Smith statement on the difference between the CMA and the EU.  He specifically stated how the EU voiced their concerns and worked with MS to address them while the CMA pretty much closed up shop then out of the blue threw out their judgement basically giving the impression the the CMA never was interested in approving the deal.

Exactly, that's what is looking to be transpiring here and it's a clear breach of due process and fairness. 

This is also evidenced by the fact there's simply no way MS values the cloud gaming scene in the UK more than this transaction, so simply put, if push came to shove, MS would have proposed anything up to dropping their cloud venture in the UK and it's in fact exactly what's they are proposing now. The fact that they did not propose such before points to the CMA not giving a proper signal to MS during negotiation.

This is terrible optics for the CMA, if they don't succeed with a stay they'll be forced to speed things up and settle out of court with MS ASAP. The implication of them losing a CAT appeal when there are clear signs of partisan shenanigans in their previous findings is really bad IMO. The new rules set that may come out of a verdict can be scathing and have for effect a change in procedure and/or power attributed to the CMA Which the CMA would want to avoid at all costs.

I don't think they'll be forced to speed up and settle out of court, I think they'll literally be forced to go to the CAT trial but I'm not 100%...

Remember it's Microsoft & CMA vs CAT and both Microsoft and CMA want the same thing here and that's adjournment to the CAT trial.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 July 2023

CMA definitely giving off the vibe that they're approving this deal either way though

Heavy hints that the divesture is Cloud.



I find it hilarious how Microsoft/CMA are now teaming up against CAT after all of this.

Judge is right though, hard to say he's doing anything wrong, he isn't.

Our only difficulty is WHEN the deal gets done and HOW.



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CMA is practically begging the judge to let them approve the deal at this point, Lol.



Ryuu96 said:
EpicRandy said:

Exactly, that's what is looking to be transpiring here and it's a clear breach of due process and fairness. 

This is also evidenced by the fact there's simply no way MS values the cloud gaming scene in the UK more than this transaction, so simply put, if push came to shove, MS would have proposed anything up to dropping their cloud venture in the UK and it's in fact exactly what's they are proposing now. The fact that they did not propose such before points to the CMA not giving a proper signal to MS during negotiation.

This is terrible optics for the CMA, if they don't succeed with a stay they'll be forced to speed things up and settle out of court with MS ASAP. The implication of them losing a CAT appeal when there are clear signs of partisan shenanigans in their previous findings is really bad IMO. The new rules set that may come out of a verdict can be scathing and have for effect a change in procedure and/or power attributed to the CMA Which the CMA would want to avoid at all costs.

I don't think they'll be forced to speed up and settle out of court, I think they'll literally be forced to go to the CAT trial.

Remember this is Microsoft & CMA vs CAT...Both CMA and Microsoft want the same thing here and that's adjournment to the CAT trial, Microsoft does not want CMA to lose here because that unpauses the CAT trial and delays things even longer.

I don't think the CAT appeal prevent the CMA from removing their interim order and granting MS the right to close pending the completion of all procedure with a stay separate order.

The problem is that the CMA does not want the CAT appeal to conclude way more so than MS does because:

For MS: quashing phase 2 will delay things but as stated they will more than likely be allowed to close, if not pending a judgment than right after that, so nothing really changes from the current August 29 deadline give or take a few days  

For the CMA: The simple fact that there might be room for negotiation with MS push, as the judge said, and for the reasons highlighted in my previous post, the appeal in quash territory. This can have severe consequences for the CMA, its power, virtually oversight-free status, and overall procedure. The CMA simply cannot allow the cat appeal to close, if they don't get a stay they will settle shortly thereafter IMO. That said I don't know if they have to settle during the hearing phase or if they can also pending a judgment giving them more time.



EpicRandy said:
Ryuu96 said:

I don't think they'll be forced to speed up and settle out of court, I think they'll literally be forced to go to the CAT trial.

Remember this is Microsoft & CMA vs CAT...Both CMA and Microsoft want the same thing here and that's adjournment to the CAT trial, Microsoft does not want CMA to lose here because that unpauses the CAT trial and delays things even longer.

I don't think the CAT appeal prevent the CMA from removing their interim order and granting MS the right to close pending the completion of all procedure with a stay separate order.

The problem is that the CMA does not want the CAT appeal to conclude way more so than MS does because:

For MS: quashing phase 2 will delay things but as stated they will more than likely be allowed to close, if not pending a judgment than right after that, so nothing really changes from the current August 29 deadline give or take a few days  

For the CMA: The simple fact that there might be room for negotiation with MS push, as the judge said, and for the reasons highlighted in my previous post, the appeal in quash territory. This can have severe consequences for the CMA, its power, virtually oversight-free status, and overall procedure. The CMA simply cannot allow the cat appeal to close, if they don't get a stay they will settle shortly thereafter IMO. That said I don't know if they have to settle during the hearing phase or if they can also pending a judgment giving them more time.

At this stage, I think MS/CMA are on the same page, I don't think MS will close over CMA but I also don't think CMA will lift the order because it would be bad optics if Microsoft closed before they've even accepted a deal and according to the trial, Microsoft hasn't even given them the final offer yet.

Either way, seems like CMA is going to approve this so Microsoft can wait it out, keep a good relationship with CMA while CMA looks less weak by only allowing closure when they're done, rather than allowing closure whilst it's still not yet approved in UK.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 July 2023

Microsoft and CMA Wins.

Conditional adjournment granted based on evidence from CMA about proposed agreement between CMA and MS.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 July 2023

That judge had em on the ropes for a minute there, haha.